Beta Black Lotus

[Johnni86]

I am in the process of trading for a beta black lotus but i am very conserned with if it is real
my biggest consern is that it seems to be thinner than a beta ancestral that i am comparing it to
i tested if the ink bleeds but it does not
i have done a bend test and it came out with very minor damage allong the crease but returned more or less to it's original state
the thickness is what is really conserning me
what do you think

[Jakedasnake]

You did a bend test on a Beta Lotus? WOW. You've got some serious balls.

How thin? As far as I know, all magic cards have been printed with the same thickness. If it's fake, the guy probably got a beta land and ripped the front off, and replaced it with a paper piece more thin than half a magic card.

That's all I can think of.

[johnstown713]

I will repeat what was just stated.  You did a bend test on a beta lotus?!?!  :shock:  :shock:   OK so how much does the guy value it at?  If it is cheap then it is a better chance of being a fake.  Also are you sure the recall you tested it with is real.

[Johnni86]

yes i know the ancestrall is real i have done many different tests on it i also compared the lotus to an alpha shaphire and an unlimited jet
the guy wants 750 it is in resonable condition as i said it has a very mild crease where it bends
the only thing that makes me think it not a refacing is that the back has the same crease

[Jakedasnake]

Wait. The guy let you do a bend test on the Lotus.

*Falls out of chair.*

[Caelestis]

Without charging you another $250 to do that, to boot... :shock:

[The Grim Reaper]

The fact that he would LET YOU DO A BEND TEST ON A BETA LOTUS!! Should tell you that it's fake. If someone did that to my lotus I would beat the crap out of them.

[theorigamist]

If there's any question that the card may have been refaced, then check the edges.  (I'd post a link to that website that details the tests, but I don't have it.  If somebody does, they should post it.)

I think the fact that he let you do a bend test does not determine the card's reality.  It just says the guy's a moron.  If it were real, he wouldn't allow the test because it's a Beta Lotus.  If it's fake, he wouldn't allow the test because it would show the card as a fake.  So he must just be mindless to let you test it.

[MarkPharaoh]

Dear god why  are all of you freaking out about the bend test.  Unless he's getting it for collecting purposes, who cares?  Whenever I do power trades I always bend test my cards and tell the other person to bend test his..These are playing cards, you PLAY with them.  When you play with them they slowly get damaged which is what the bend test sometimes (not always, not most of the time, but sometimes) does.

[gzeiger]

Why are you getting a Beta if there's no element of collecting?

[MarkPharaoh]

P-I-M-P-A-G-E

[Kerz]

You guys obviously don't understand. A bend test does ABSOLUTELY ZERO damage to the card itself. As long as its real, the card will immidately spring back. The problem lies in how well the person knows how to do the bend test- if done wrong it will cause damage.

[kirdape3]

Pimping a deck means that you're into Type One exclusively, and therefore probably horrible

[Dr. Sylvan]

Pimping a deck means that you're into Type One exclusively, and therefore probably horrible ;)

I'm T1 for about 97% of my Magic-ness, AND I don't get pimp cards at all AND I'm awful. Where does that put me? :)

Kerz is right on about the safety of a simple bend test. Unless he attacked the card like a Psychatog, bend test is totally valid.

Generally, when I think about how someone would fake Power, I would worry about thicker as opposed to thinner. If it's thin like other cards, feels like a card and doesn't appear to be inked onto a card, those would be the main things I would consider.

[Jakedasnake]

On average, a card can handle a bend test 9 times before taking damage. However, this is straight from a pack.

If the Lotus is beat, as I assume it is, and, if it has been played or shuffled extensively, the card WILL crease.

[Spizzard]

the guy wants 750 it is in resonable condition

If the Lotus is beat, as I assume it is

The lotus is in reasonable condition, thus I'm pretty sure we can assume its not beat.  Since beat and reasonable are pretty different.  I'd assume it can pass the bend test.  I'd suggest if you can get a scan of it, someone might be able to tell from that.

[Tempe]

My rule of thumb is that if my local dealer and other local players can't tell whether its fake or not, then it really doesn't matter. If someone can make a fake well enough to go undetected, then it is effectively a real Lotus.

--Tempe

[Shikari]

well...f that's the case..dun buy it then lol...

[johnstown713]

People are talking about bending power whenever they trade or buy it.  What happens if ity has been through many people who have all done the bend test.  You will be the one that ruins the card in this case possibly a beta lotus.

[DEA]

if it's been through many bend tests, there will be accumulated damage that is visible if you know what to look out for
if there is a slight crease without wrinkling across the centre of the card, odds are the card has been around the block, and been bent many, many times

[Hi-Val]

Faked cards are also more likely to be mint or very good, because a worn sandwiched fake has frayed edges and is coming apart. You can also get a lot more money from a pristine fake than a beat one.

The best bet is to get a strong magnifying glass and look at the card. The ink is printed in circles, so look at a real Beta card and then the Lotus and see if the circles are present.

[Smash]

You aren't that bad phil  I think you got over your zoo kick finally? heh


You people amaze me. MTG cards are cardboard. Cardboard gets creases from bending. Don't believe me? Take a BRAND new crappy common. Bend test it 20 times. You WILL see damage. Not to mention good fakes pass this test.

Let a professional examine it. Dealers or people who are into old stuff (like me) have seen a lot of fakes, and tend to be able to pick out the fakes.

[Razvan]

Water test it. Wash the card gently with a small wet cloth. That's another good test.

It all depends how you bend your card. If you violently do it, you will crease it. Otherwise, it can take a lot of bending.

[iccarus]

as i said it has a very mild crease where it bends

If it already has a crease in the center, then it is more than likely a fake.  The presence of the crease in the first place shows that the bend test has been done before usually, and it also shows it failed.

This site is often good for spotting some types of fakes.

http://www.apathyhouse.com/mtg/fake/index.php

[MasterIth]

yea, letting somone perform a bend test on a beta lotus, either that guy has some real balls, or has created a very very good fake, i would beat the tar out of anyone who tried to do the bend test on my unlimited Jet. In any case, i have seen preffesionals do the bend test, and it does not damage the card at all, the only way to damage a card doing the bend test is if you do not know how to proper;y do it.

[jdl]

Of the 8 Beta power I'm using, I've done the bend test on every one of them, including the Lotus.  It's really not a big deal if you do it right.  When I traded several unlimited power for some beta cards, we did a bend test on both sides of the trade.

It's nothing compared to the beating they take when I shuffle.

[MasterIth]

thats one of those things i dont understand, i see people playing with 2000 dollar decks, and beating the crap opur of them when they shuffle, why not shuffle normally, and keep your 2000 dollar deck worth 2000 dollars

[Samite Healer]

There are some statements that have been made here which are true, and some that are false.

Facts:

1)  Bend testing a Magic card over long period of time WILL eventually cause wear to the card as it becomes more flexible over time.

2)  While it's true you can do the "water" test, this is a stupid idea simply because there is no need to.  If the coating of a card is not 100% there, as is true with most cards 10 years old, it may damage the surface.  You don't want water on card stock, plain and simple.

3)  Bend testing is NOT necessary.  You can tell simply by looking at the card closely and feeling it.  Some fakes DO pass the bend test a number of times before creasing.

4)  Someone's asking price for a card doesn't mean ANYTHING about its authenticity.

[DEA]

the crease from the bend test is quite obvious between real and fake cards
try it with a real common
you'll see the effect after 10 bends

imo the bend test is there to rule out rebacked cards ie CE

[Tha Gunslinga]

You did a bend test on a Beta Lotus? WOW. You've got some serious balls.

I bend-test everything valuable I acquire, and usually spit-test them too.

You know how I tested my played Beta Sapphire, which looked somewhat fake to me?  I split the corner to look for the blue in the middle.  It was real, incidentally.


If the Lotus is thinner than a normal card, it's fake.  No question about it.  Cards don't vary in thickness.  EVER.

There are some statements that have been made here which are true, and some that are false.

Facts:

1)  Bend testing a Magic card over long period of time WILL eventually cause wear to the card as it becomes more flexible over time.

2)  While it's true you can do the "water" test, this is a stupid idea simply because there is no need to.  If the coating of a card is not 100% there, as is true with most cards 10 years old, it may damage the surface.  You don't want water on card stock, plain and simple.

3)  Bend testing is NOT necessary.  You can tell simply by looking at the card closely and feeling it.  Some fakes DO pass the bend test a number of times before creasing.

4)  Someone's asking price for a card doesn't mean ANYTHING about its authenticity.

1.  The bend test takes something like 50+ times to damage the card.  Some dude on either Magic Library or MOTL (or maybe TMD) actually did this until it bent.

2.  Good point, but fakes are rarely played.

3.  Many fakes can pass the look test.  Use a magnifying glass and compare it to a real card from the same set and the same color.

4.  Maybe not, but if someone wanted $500 or less for a Beta Lotus I'd be much more suspicious than if they wanted in the $1000 range.