How to beat Control Slaver with FCG?

[Nantuko Rice]

How? I can't do it. Last tournament, I crushed every deck except control slaver. Maybe it's just a sideboard problem? Or I'm unlucky. Anyhow, I've been tinkering with my deck more and have come to this build (expecting more control slaver decks to pop up).

4x Incinerator
4x Lackey
4x Warchief
4x Ringleader
4x Driver
3x Gang COmmando
1x SShooter
2x Matron
2x Prospector
3x Recruiter
3x Food Chain
1x Vandal
1x Tinkerer
2x Null Rod? Damp Matrix? Something.

1x ring
1x lotus
1x mox
1x mox
1x mana crypt
4x mountain
4x taiga
4x fetches
5x waste/strip

SB:
1x Food Chain
2x Artifact Mutation
4x Rack & Ruin
4x REB
?

 = = =

3x Gang Commanders to go with lackeys more often
4x Incinerators cuz they own Welders
3x Food Chain because it seams like Oshawa Stompy has vanished (can always board in the 4th one after)

My previous sideboard was 4x root mazes, since it deals with both dragon and TPS. I also thought it dealt with mindslaver but realized they get an untap phase the next turn and it didn't work well enough. So I began thinking about Null Rods and Damping Matrixes but slaver plays R&R.

I keep ArtiMutates to 2 just because every smart Chalice of the Void should be for 2 when against FCG. For this reason, I also play 1 vandal and 1 tinkerer. Maybe I should maindeck more.

For sometime, I've also played 2x Mirri's Guile in the maindeck. Why? Just for kicks. If blue can play brainstorm and fetch, you would think that Guile + Fetch, Cyclers, Ringleaders, Recruiters, and Matrons would be just as good.

I keep matrons in the deck because they're good. Other FCG players may say otherwise, but they're to useful. It was hard going from 4 to 2. If people could play 4 demonic tutors, they would. Matron is almost just as good. The only thing it can't fetch up is a Food Chain or land.

And after all my rambling on and on.... the main question is.... Should FCG maindeck hate?

FCG is suppose to be a completely aggressive deck that just beats down and combos out when possible, but if you think about it, wasn't that the intention of other decks like Ankh-Sligh and Stompy? They all maindeck hate now. Blood Moons, Root Mazes, Null Rods.

[jpmeyer]

FCG doesn't have slots for hate, and besides it has a better answer anyway: winning.

[Androstanolone]

the main difference is that FCG is much faster and more resilient than sligh or stompy.  It isn't in especial need of MD h8.  The build given on the primer here, with maybe minor 1 card changes, has enough good matchups (with hardcore combo being underplayed) that it can leave the h8 in the SB.  Null rod just keeps getting better and better in T1, I remember a few months ago, null rod was decent, since then it has just gotten better and better because of the rise of slaver and artifact decks in general.  Add to this that it's pretty good at slowing/stopping combo decks and it's a must SB/MD in budget aggro control decks.  I SB 4 rods in my FCG for the slaver matchup, and it's extra h8 against tendrils combo too.  MDing rods is not a good idea in FCG, though, because it uses a fair amount of artifact acceleration to aid in its explosiveness, so rods can be dead in many matchups.  Not to mention the #1 rule of editing FCG is that, if it's not a goblin, it better be broke as shit.  Rod isn't that gamebreaking often enough to MD in FCG, the good news is you can afford to reserve a decent amount of sideboard space to combo and slaver, since FCG has decent matchups against most of the rest of the field (in general, without going into too much detail).  I SB 4 root mazes, 4 REB, and 4 rods to insure I have combo h8, if you stop the combo or delay it greatly you're free to beat down and win at liesure, so I side out my combo against tendrils.  Rods are the best thing for the slaver matchup I've come up with so far, FCG is a tight deck and you can't over SB (except against combo where it doesn't matter if your deck loses cohesiveness, just that you stop/greatly delay the combo) or FCG loses its beautiful goblin synergy.  So I think 4 rods in the board is the way to go atm, slaver isn't unwinnable, you may just need more practice.  Try playing the deck some, when I have trouble against a deck I switch to it for a while to learn what really hurts it and really get to know it intimately.  "Know your enemy" .  



- androstan

Edit:  jp's got it, you win first  the ol' "remove target opponent" except a lot faster now

[Vegeta2711]

Your either unlucky or need to practice with the deck a little more. I've personally playtested against Rich about 10-11 games and we split game 1 and game 2 I usually had the advantage. I never had a bad time with the Slaver match.

Just to note however: This was before he added another few BeB to the board and before I ran SB Null Rod, so game 2/3 may of changed a bit.

[Nantuko Rice]

ok, so i keep combo/control hate in the sideboard, but when the time comes, what do you sideboard? Also, what do you guys think of blood moon?

the primer here @ TMD isn't exactly very helpful.... it doesn't even have null rods in it. all it says is to side in artifact mutations when you see brown and blood moons/REB if you see blue.

there's also parts that say you should try to outrace other combo decks with food chains, but you guys suggest siding out the combo for hate.

so what do you guys think of mirri's guile?

[Morphelin]

Although the cost of Matron can change with Warchief and although Matron is 1/1 - it's a bad card. If control could play 4 demonic tutor, yes he would, but if demonic tutor cost 2B - nobody would play it. FCG is an aggro deck, he can't play 1/1 for 2R.

For the sideboard, I think that 4 RnR are enough. CotV is a auto play to 2 against FCG, I know you know that, but it's very important. Artifact Mutation is often a dead card.
Your sideboard needs:
3 Blood Moon
3 REB
1 Food Chain
4 Root Maze/Tormod's Crypt
4 RnR

It's very difficult to always have 1 green mana with 5 strips at the first turn - So Root Maze isn't always good.

My build contains 4 Goblin Vandal and I love it. Against Nevinyral's Disk (it comes into play tapped :lol: ), CotV, Workshop's tools,...

[jpmeyer]

You start loading your deck up with random stuff like Null Rod and you'll never see it when you cast Recruiter.

[The Atog Lord]

I agree with Vegeta. In this matchup, FCG is the beatdown deck, trying to win the game before the Control Slaver player has had a chance to establish his board. This happened about half of the time in our testing. Experience with FCG seems to be an important factor as well.

I'm not convinced that maindeck hate such as Null Rod is required, because the deck can run perfectly well without Null Rod. A deck like OStompy, with two artifact sources, is better able to take advantage of Null Rod than FCG.

[jazzykat]

Don't use blood moon against control slaver, they run it in their sb too!

[Vegeta2711]

it doesn't even have null rods in it.

Because you didn't even need them until Workshop Slaver started coming back in force.

Honestly I'm not even sure if you need Null Rod against them, Artifact Mutation and good beats is sometimes all you need. Also feel free to change the SB plan if it doesn't suit you, you guys do think for yourselves right? (You know, playstyle counts for something.)

BTW, after the testing against Rich I've found it's much easier just to SB out Skirk Prospectors and possibly a Food Chain. Less things to screw you in case you do get Slaved.

Mirri's Guile is cute and more intresting than most 'tech' I've seen, but isn't particularly broken and will never make up the card you lost in playing it. (Unlike say Sylvan Library or something)

EDIT: Oh and ontopic, if you MD hate... your just dilluting the deck. Thanks.

[Nantuko Rice]

Whats your build look like after you cram 4 vandals in it?

[Morphelin]

Toad say to me that Keeper win against FCG. Is it really true?

[Razvan]

FCG really needs the Food Chains to go off, otherwise it plays like a normal aggro goblin deck, with less Siege-Gang Commanders, and crap like Goblin Matron.

If a deck can counter both Food Chains and Recruiter, it obviously wins against the deck.

[Vegeta2711]

Toad say to me that Keeper win against FCG. Is it really true?

Yeah it does pretty much. Keeper has a lot more bombs against you than Tog or Control Slaver. Hell they could go suicide Exalted Angel on you if they wanted and it's like the T2 days again. They could straight up smash you like that.

[Nantuko Rice]

If a deck can counter both food chain and recruiter, they don't automatically win. if a deck counters food chain and recruiter, chances are they'll die to goblin beats.

goblin beats is great in type 2 and still great in type 1.

playing against keeper, i go 50-50 also.

in type 2, angel doesn't win against goblins. angel wins because of astral slide + wrath of god.

[Vegeta2711]

Actually Slide just loses period unless they've got CoP: Red anyways, go figure. I simply meant that if your not comboing out, being on a 5 turn clock w/ your opponent gaining 4 life a turn and still being able to counter, Balance or Plow is annoying as hell.