Tinker Affinity n' Friends

[Wsauret]

I hope this is the correct Forum.

Well, This is my Hybrid Artifact deck...

Mana (21)
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Vault
2 Tolarian Academy

Creatures (20)
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Atog
4 Arcbound Worker

Tinker (8)
4 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Triskelion  
1 Platinum Angel
1 Bosh, Iron Golem

Draw (11)
4 Thoughtcast
3 Skullclamp
2 Time Spiral
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

The basic theme of this deck, is to abuse the rules that my play group has set forth. We are allowed (unless a deck gets out of control, then we decide to restrict stuff), to play 4 of almost any card, and being that NONE of us have power, the unrestricted cheap (money-wise) artifact acceleration is allowed to give our decks more of a type 1 feel.

This deck has a total of 11 artifact lands in order to allow for a high affinity count/academy value. My playgroup sees very little non-basic hate, as much of the metagame is mono-colored aggro, and really really old style decks modified to a budget (like Stasis, Black vise, and Erhnam-Geddon).

Being that we are powerless, if we are to accelerate our decks we play mainly with the cheap restricted accelerants (as said earlier), such as Petal, and Vault.

The Atogs are and ongoing experiment, as I already had much unused red mana (just used it as colorless), and extra artifacts that were not contributing to the kill... The Atogs have been game winners in most games, and when they weren’t, it was only because I already had such good board position by the time I got one in play. In reality the function very much like arcbound ravengers (very budget versions of the ravengers, as the ravengers arent useful outside this deck so i cant justify puting that kind of money into such a onesided card).

Affinity in general has been a very nice upgrade for this deck, and I find it to be very usable.

The tinker targets are an area that I am always fiddling with, as I rarely want to have one of them in my opening hand (so this makes me want to keep their numbers small), but I want to be able to use that 2nd or 3rd tinker that I might see in some sort of a long game (so this wants their numbers large). As such is the case, I am still attempting to find a nice balance for the number of targets, and have been trying to decide what cards are indeed the best targets. I am curious what others think on this topic.

One of the most important things to remember when commenting on this (if anyone does), is that I am on a tight budget, and I am open to all suggestions, but I can only USE those which take this into account. I realize some of my cards might be sub-optimal card choices, but they are the cards I had when I made this deck; but I am willing to work on acquiring any cards that appear to be overwhelmingly commonly suggested (and are fairly cheap).

Thanks to anyone who takes time to reply to such a random deck.

Wes

Edit: edited the deck list, with the latest updates 4/5/04

Edit: 4/12/04,
-3 Somber Hoverguard
-1 Voltaic Key

+2 Time Spiral
+1 Arcbound Worker
+1 Memory Jar

[jpmeyer]

Read the Type 1 restricted list first, then try again

[Wsauret]

So this would belong more in the casual then the Budget? I wasnt sure because i suppose it is both, as i did say in my initial post, we have our own playgroup rules, in order to make it fun without power... Which i suppose is one of the many definitions of casual... i realize this is not type 1, but i have yet to see it said if a post is say budget and casual... where it goes... so...

Would you recemend this be moved/reposted in casual, or, what?

Wes

[Lockdown]

Yes.  For future reference, Budget Forum implies legal "budget" decks.  This deck belongs in the casual forum.  Don't worry, everybody makes mistakes.  It's not really a problem as long as it doesn't happen too often.

[Wsauret]

Now that it is in the right Forum   , does anyone have any comments on the deck?

Wes

[hispls]

Always use 4 tinkers and as many acadamys as you can.  It's not so that you'll draw multiples it's to increase your chances of getting one early.  Some good tinker targets are new (memnarch, mindslaver, darksteel colossus)  One thing you might try if you really like the atog (arcbound ravager beats atog every day of the week but may be hard for you to get on a budget) try desciple of the vault.  he's a black 1 drop common that makes opponent lose life for every artifact put in a graveyard from play, sometimes you can finish your opponent just by pumping the atog before you even attack.

[Wsauret]

Based on the suggestions given, and some more playtesting; I decided that the mana base is a little uneasy, and im contemplating replacing the Ancient Den's with Gemstone mines or City of brass's, but i am not sure whether or not thats the best call, as the 3 additional artifacts are nice for disciple, atog, and affinity.

The braingeyser is there as i will often times find myself with way too much mana, and a small hand; and most all the games where i could cast the geyser, i won shortly afterwords. Any comments on the current incarnation of the deck are much appreciated,

Wes

Edit: removed list, in order to keep the only updated decklist up top (thought it would be cleaner)

[Lockdown]

Why not play with a budget, unrestricted Academy Deck?  You'll probably be winning much faster than by dealing damage with your creatures.  Use something like Grim Monolith/Power Artifact, or Tolarian Academy/Capsize/Candelabra of Tawnos to get infinite mana and kill them with the Stroke of Genius.

[Wsauret]

very good observation Lockdown, and i was playing academy (which is why i have many of the pieces among other things), but the version i was playing (a TPS with 4 desires..) turned every game with my playgroup into a goldfish match (except against the 2 decks that have FOW, but i didnt play against those often).....

SO as a result, no one would ever play against it, so i switched it over to an artifact creature random hybrid-esque build...

"In the end I decided that degenerate decks were actually part of the fun. People would assemble them, play with them until they got bored or their regular opponents refused to play against them, and then retire the deck or trade off its components for something new" [Richard Garfield 1994]

As with what garfield said about magic "back in the day" that is the same way our play group plays.... In anycase...

What i noticed is that for some reason people appear to be less appreahensive when killed quickly by creatures; then when killed by a huge stormed tendril, or a large braingeyser (i made both builds).

Because of this psychological phenomenom, i was hoping to rather tune this deck a bit more if possible (or to switch the theme of the deck slightly), so any additional suggestions are VERY welcome

Wesley

[Misemaster]

One suggestion I have if you are looking to run something that produces mana of any color the obvious choice would be glimmervoid. You said city of brass or gemstone mine but with the large artifact count glimmervoid is stricly superior.

[Wsauret]

Misemaster, yes i did consider that, and you are correct in that that would be strictly superior, but strangly enough I am currently finding the mana base to be quite stable, as I generally have the color I need to cast any card I have in my hand within 1 turn of wanting to play it (which seems to be soon enough).

The main change that I made this time around to the deck list; which I was curious, in regards to the general reaction of TMD, was the addition of time spiral.

I realize that in decks as fast as this one, that Time Spiral is often thought to be too slow, but i have also found myself in cases where my academies are already useless on turn 3, because they produce 12 mana, and there is no way I can spend that much as I have too few cards in hand. With this problem in mind, I tested using more expensive drawspells (Geyser, Spiral, Stroke), and found Time Spiral to be the most viable as in many cases I can cast it quite early.

Furthermore, when you actually play agaisnt decks that pack distruption (as opposed to goldfishing, or playing agaisnt decks that are essentially a goldfish) the games dont always end by turn 4, and it is in those cases that the draw 7's help me the most (and help in an unsymetrical fashion, as I can usually drop my whole hand, and they cant counter or kill it all)...

In anycase, any comments on this, or just observations in general are MUCH appreciated,

Wes

[Misemaster]

I am not sure if your card pool is limiting the deck but wouldnt arcbound ravager just be better than atog? It may not pump as fast but if it is hit with some kind of removal one of your other creatures just takes all his counters. Also he has better snergy with disciple because he gets a permanent +1+1 when you have to sac in response to something.

As for the time spiral im not sure if it is necessary. Do you have wheel of fortune that is a much chepaer draw 7. I wouldnt worry about spending the academy mana once you cast wheel you'll pick enough stuff to use it. For the other time spiral I would probably add in the 4th skullclamp as the card is just busted and if you were going to burn from academy you could move it around. If you did use ravager skullclamp is much better as you can clamp a creature sac it to give him +1+1 and draw 2 cards.

[Wsauret]

Actually, you were right on, I (still) cant justify spending $80 for a playset of ravagers, that are pretty much useless except in this deck.. when I am still buying dual lands, and other staples that can be used in many decks..

But, i finally broke down and proxied up the ravagers, and tested and they are indeed (as everyone has been telling me), insanely awesome... so i decided to shift the focus of the deck from being slightly odd, but unique to a degree.. to a cheap rip off what everyone else is doing...

With such large changes to the decklist (which i will discuss later).. Im going to post it in this reply, and leave the past version up there so that you (i say you, because it appears only Misemaster reads this thread), can see the changes.

Without further adieu...

My bad version of the type 1 forum RA deck:

4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Mana Vault
4 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Atog
1 Platinum Angel

3 Skullclamp
3 Thoughtcast
1 Time Spiral
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Windfall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mind Twist
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Ok... So basically this is similar to the versions being posted, and a few card changes... Being that Ravager is such a house, i noticed that my tinker setup wasnt really needed, and was almost slowing it down (that and its far from type 1 legal)... so i (all at once) tried to make it MORE type 1 legal, and more streamlined to a single purpose.

My problem in my play style (which i realize MUST be fixed.. but as of right now im dealing with it), is that i rarely want to cast disruptive spells, because i see plenty of other cards that are more offensive, that i could cast instead. With that in mind, that is why you see Very little disruption in this deck... The only card that can really be considered as such, is mind twist, and even then thats only 1 card... Yet with the mana i have, i can normally cause a dumping of the hand, which against most decks is kind of hurtful.

Basically to powerize this version (and make it legal) you would just take out 3 petals, and 3 vaults.. and put in 5 moxes, and 1 lotus... take out the 2 atogs, and put 1 timewalk, and 1 ancestral in....

In anycase, the Angel is still in there, because i find i can hard cast it often, and in a few situations, it is a better tinker target then memory jar (or so i think). Yes it gets destroyed early, but, better that then my ravager (or any other artifact that is essential).

Again, (as this deck has heavily evolved since i first posted the list), comments, questions, and suggestions are welcome..

Wes