Temping Wurm Discussion

[InsaneScrub]

I an idea for tempting wurm I would like to kick out to your guys, it's a very interesting deck, and I know it at first might seem ridiculous, but give it some serious though before critisizing it.  Furthermore the reason I am posting it, is to get feedback, on how it might work, not that it won't work.

Tempting Deeds

4 duress
4 hymn of tourach
1 mind twist

4 pernicious deed

4 nantuko shade
4 tempting wurms* (I am thinking with deeds and discard this can work!)
4 withered wretch

1 unearth

3 skeletal scrying
1 necropotence
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor

4 dark rit
1 black lotus
1 mox jet

8 swamps
4 bayou
4 bloodstained mire
4 wasteland
1 strip mine


sideboard

3 moment's peace
3 naturalize
3 bind
3 trinisphere
3 seedtime

In my initial playtesting, I have found the deck works quite radically, you lay a deeds, and temp them with the wurm or in reverse, lay the wurm then the deeds.  By turn 2-3 vs most non-control decks won't have a hand anyway, and when someone opens up mox mox lotus land, you are usually pretty safe.  The wurm will get countered by control decks most of the time.  Just make sure you scout with duress before you drop the wurm.  So there it is, the temping wurm idea.

[Androstanolone]

Even with a moderate amount of discard I doubt you will find enough windows to cast tempting wurm productively.  In particular, artifact prison decks will have a field day dropping angels, pentavus, slavers, smokestacks, tangle wires, etc. etc. etc. off your wurm.  In general a 5/5 for 1G is insane but your opponent can almost always grab a much greater tempo boost off it than you.  

You could probably SB this in an RG deck, as per kirdape3 and toaddy, and bring it in against tog and any aggro that tends to dump their hand fast.  

Overall I don't think it's a card you can base a deck around, but against certain decks you can make it a 5/5 for 1G which is very powerful.  



- androstan

[Matt]

You could try Suppress, or something that penalized players having lots of permanents in play.

[Androstanolone]

sorry for the double post, but to respond to your question of how to make the deck better, I say try to fit in more discard to make casting the wurm easier.  Add hypnotic specter and cabal therapy, create a heavy hand disruption component combined with the board clearing ability of pernicious deed, plus your 8 "fast fats" (shade and wurm) and dark rituals and I think you have the ability to put fast pressure on the opponent while still having removal for aggro.  The only problem with this is you have to cut withered wretch for hippie, and wretch is an awesome utility creature as opposed to hippie's greater synergy (and downright scariness against control if it sticks around).  You should also replace vampiric tutor with demonic consultation, this is simply a no brainer, consult is vastly superior.  To fit in the cabals you would have to take out the lone unearth and the 3 scryings, scrying is too slow for this deck imo.  The deck wants to rape their hand quick, drop fat, and smash.  Similar to suiG strategy but with the  focus on hand destruction and replacing negator with tempting wurm.  Maybe name it "Tempting Suicide", that's a pretty could sounding name .



- androstan

[Jacob Orlove]

Moved to newbie.

[TheAdvantage]

and when someone opens up mox mox lotus land, you are usually pretty safe.

Wow....thats an interesting, and quite optimistic, viewpoint.

This isnt really a new idea; its more of a metagame call.  The Wurm can work better than Negator in a Sligh and, to a lesser degree, Keeperesque heavy metagame but it's going to be horrible against any sort of Workshop deck and marginal against standard aggro.  I think you should run the Wurm in addition to Negator though, unless it's going to get burned everytime it hits the table in your area.

The problem with relying on Deed to destroy the permanents they drop via Wurm is the high cmc said permanents are likely to have...ie....you'll be knocking off your Wurm most of the time if you even have enough mana to deal with their threats.  If you think Tempting Wurms can work in your meta, that's great, but like Suicide, it will only ever be a metagame call.

With regards to Andro's comments, I also cut the 3 Scrying and the lone Unearth seems questionable, but I do not recommend Hyppies.  Their time has come and gone and the disruption they provide is matched with an inferior clock at 3 mana.

[Androstanolone]

Theadvantage is right, deeds easily clear your own threats as well as theirs and hippie isn't the powerhouse it used to be, I suggested it only because of its synergy with the rest of the deck.  Either way, it is as we said, tempting wurm is either a metagame call or a SB choice, and not really a card to base a deck around.

[johnstown713]

I know some of you disagree but I think the hypnotic spectors are really important.  The more hand distruption the better.  I am also not a fan of playing 4 shades but that is just me.  What exactly have you tested against to give us a better idea of your enviornment.  Also have you cansidered Nether Void in the sideboard over trinisphere.  I know there is a thread about that open now but I wanted your opinion.
Johnstown713

[Green Knight]

You should add Cabal Therapy to see the hand before playing the wurm, also Ostracize can be quite good as you see the hand and stop a creature (assuming they are playing them). I had worked on this deck quit a bit last year and over all is just is not competitive enough in my opinion. Good luck!

[AngryPheldagrif]

4 duress
4 hymn of tourach
1 mind twist

4 pernicious deed

4 nantuko shade
4 tempting wurms
4 withered wretch

1 unearth

3 skeletal scrying
1 necropotence
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor

4 dark rit
1 black lotus
1 mox jet

8 swamps
4 bayou
4 bloodstained mire
4 wasteland
1 strip mine


sideboard

3 moment's peace
3 naturalize
3 bind
3 trinisphere
3 seedtime

What you basically have here is a non-optimal suicide black with Deeds and the Wurms. The Wurms are great on the surface, I mean a 5/5 for  {G} is awesome, but you only have a moderate amount of discard. To analyze it;
4x Duress: Cannot hit creatures or lands, therefore probably more useful for pulling a counter than a threat.
4x Hymn to Tourach: Good, but  {B} means so second turn Wurm usually.
1x Mind Twist: Barring a double Ritual hand or whatnot, never really effective early.

You are not very likely to pull what you need gone, as only 5 of them can even hit creatures, and those are random.

There are just too many cards that your opponent can drop that would totally destroy you. With no maindeck kill (and none of the SB, except for artifacts) other than Deed, all your opponent has to do is drop Platinum Angel, Exalted Angel, Psychatog, Masticore, Morphling, Pentavus, Triskelion, etc. (and don't say "Nobody plays Morphling, yo!!!" because I know that, I'm just using an example) and you're dead.

Pernicious Deed itself seems a rather odd choice as the only kill in the deck. Sure you can blow up a threat they pitch in from the Wurm, but you'll most likely lose the Wurm then! It's an interesting deck idea, and the Wurm thing has been floating around for a while, but I don't see your deck having optimal matches anywhere.

Against Dragon: All you have is a bit of discard and the Wretchs.
Mask-Nought(in its many shapes and forms): You have less kill than they have Duress/Unmask. And 12/12s tend to own 5/5s. A lot.
Slaver: You just die, they're faster and stronger. I hear Tempting Wurm isn't that good when your opponent plays it for you.
Fish/Landstill: Probably a bit of a better matchup, but they'll just counter the Wurm and Deed, and the rest of the match is theirs. Shade and Wretch are fine, but owned by Fire. And manlands get around Deed and Duress, meaning you're quite heavily screwed. Also Standstill resolved makes Wurm a whole hell of a lot worse.
Hulk: They match your discard, counter your threats, Deed/Smother/Whatever your Wurm, drop the Tog and it's game. They also out draw you by miles.

In summary, I don't really think the deck in and of itself is viable. If you seriously think I'm wrong and it's great, feel free to hit me up on AIM (HunterKiller403) and I'll be happy to take you with whatever on Apprentice.

-Dan