[Deck Discussion] Keeper in the Current Meta, Evolution

[serracollector]

As of late many have said that Keeper is no longer a tier1 deck, mainly due to the power and explosiveness that Tog now brings to Vintage.  Why play Keeper over Tog?  Tog has faster/more draw, just as many counters, all the broekness, and not to mention one of the best damn kill mechanism's in MtG.  The reason to still play Keeper is because Keeper is an evolving deck, always changing and growing, to fit the current meta of Vintage.  I have no doubt that within the next two years, some ungodly creation will come out that will put Tog to shame, but alas, Keepr will change, grow and evolve to match any new foes.  For those of you who do not know, I am from Ohio, where I get to play the likes of Steven Menedian (sp?) and his crew.  And in the metagame here it is all about Slaver/Draw 7/Tog and Landstill/Fish variants.  Once in a blue moon you'll see Trinistax and Dragon or even the occasional Belcher deck (which is some good).  Now this brings to question what is the best type of Keepr to play in the current meta.  Obviously you have several choices.  You have Scepter Keeper, Matrix Keeper, and for those fond of the old, Oldschool Keeper, which is pretty much the build of 2001 with 4 brainstorm/3 wishes.
Now IMHO Matrix Keeper is the OBV build.  What does Dampning Matrix stop?  Welder/Slaver/Triskelion/Karn/Pentavus/Memnarch/Tog/Laquatus/Sliver Queen/Belcher/Nantuku Shade (had to throw it in there) just to name the MAIN decks of t1.  Now, we know that this card should be played maindeck, yes this is correct, MAINDECK.  Yes, I know it  stops your Mox Monkeys, but for some reason me thinks thats not so bad when stopping Welder as well.  
     Now, what other cards can we fit into Keeper that can keep it up with the meta.  Should we play Duress?  I honestly do no think so.  9/10 Duress just simply puts something in your opponents grave that they will break later with a Welder or Y. Win.  Keeper obv doesn't play with Meddling Mages or Cabal Therapy, so the "advantage" that Duress would normally give you is, in fact a disadvantage in t1.  Keeper needs to move more from a "destroy you hand and perms" to a "I control the board through my cards" type deck.  Due to this, one obv choice IMHO is that Humility should be maindecked.  Humility is the new Moat and Abyss.  This cards does all the sexiness of Dampning Matrix to the creatures I mentioned, and does nothing to hurt Keeper.  Oh, excuse me, once again, this card will also make your mox monkey a "less broken" 1/1.  So we have 2 Matrix and at least 1 Humilty maindeck.  
      Now the counter base.  Obv 4 Force/4 Drain, as always.  Now what other counters are good?  Stifle?  I honestly don't think so.  Stifle.....is good do not get me wrong, but you have better cards.  Matrix and Humilty will stop 95% of the things you want to stifle.  Secondly, Keeper has always been about card advantage, and as I said earlier it needs to be able to control the board, and stifle doens't  do this.  Yes once in a while you will have that "I stifled your sac land", but I honestly would just rather play the 5th strip (as most Keepers variants of late only play 4 or 3), since strip effects are now a 2 for 1 (sac land, non-basic land, and 1 life).  Other counters?  How about MisDirection?  Why you ask?  Simply due to 2 cards, Mind Twist and Ancestral Recall.  As Tog/EBA/ and Slaver are on the grow, not to mention fish and Landstill, MisDirection is not a bad choice for the meta.  Whether it's making them chuck thier hand, drawing 3 cards for yourself, or making them bolt one of thier own factories (fire/ice is a little more difficult as they can split it and you can no longer MisD it as their are 2 targets), or even pulling something stupid like stopping Dragon from going off, by making them Animate thier Laquatus before they have the mana to deck you, Misdirection is some good.  
     Now, the kill of Keeper.  There has been so much argumentation on this, that I just am in a daze.  In this current meta you need 3, yes 3 Decree.  Why?  One, its a cantrip, at the very very worst a cantrip.  Never bad to be able to chuck a card to try and find what you need .  Secondly, you still need to worry about the random aggro deck.  Stax/Oshwa/Sui and even Sligh are still out there people.  They may not be out in full force like they were, but when your metagamed deck is rompeed by some tier2 trash (no offense to those who play these decks), you'll feel pretty stupid.  Secondly, as an alternative kill, I beleive that not 1, not 2, but 3 Mox Monkeys should be played Maindeck.  There are SOOOOOOO many decks that the first turn Monkey is crucial.  Hell when you think about it, a first turn monkey is almost like playing vs an Unpowered Deck.  2nd turn Gilded Lotus and Memnarch's are hard to pull with no Moxen or Mana Crypts.  Not to mention it just rapes Tog.  Tog may be quicker than Keeper, but not without mana.  
     And now to creature kill.  How mch is too much?  Well, I was recently looking over Zherbus's Keeper, and I have to agree with his choice of maindeck 1 Fire/Ice and 2 Swords.  Fire/Ice was so good when people where playing Sui and Sligh just as much as Keeper and Mono Blue, but Swords is the better choice as of late.  Why?  IMHO simply due to the RFG effect.  You can't get a Tog or a Welder or a Pentavaus (or any artifact creature) back after its RFG.  Time Twister is getting used more and more, not only in Slaver and Stax, but I have even seen it in Tog, which some say it shouldn't be, but I won't get into that argument.  Twister coming back means that permanent removal (as in removed from game) is more essentail than ever.  Obviously you can place more Critter kill, or Fire/Ice's in your sideboard as needed.  
     And almost lastly for this peice, your draw.  Ancestral, duh.  Brainstorms, another no brainer (no pun intended), but how many to run?  Many decks I have seen run 4....why though?   Yes it works great, absolutley great with the fetches, but Keeper only runs 4.  It may sound absurd to some, but with 4 sacs, and 4 brainstorms, your still very likely to just Storm into a Storm, which I honestly hate doing.  True it gives you that one card ahead to look at......but still, I think 3 is enough.  Great card but not a 4 of.  At least not yet.  More testing may hold otherwise.  Now, Skeletal Scrying, the unrestricted Stroke.  Honestly I have no idea why this card is not restricted.  Mana Drain is out there still, and with fetches and Brainstorms, and Smoekstack/Nev's Disk everywhere, your not exactly worrying about having stuff in the grave to remove.  This card is just sick.  NecroStroke, thats what they should've called it.  Now I honestly don't know though how many to run.  2 minimal, but possibly 3, yes 3 Maindeck.  If you wish (no pun intened again) you can play 2 Maindeck and 1 SB as u can wish for it.  And of course, we have Fact or Fiction NOT too expensive, dead sexy, and helps with the good ol' Y. Win.  so all together 8 draw spells, not too shabby when you look at the current meta.  True its not the AK engine, which I beleive was very smartly not used in Keeper, especailly due to the argument that Intu/AK is good, but what to Intu for in Keeper after the AK?  Thus Ak engine, no good, not to mention it takes 5 slots.  
     And then of course we have our random Brkedness.  Y. Win, DT, VT, Mind Twist, Balance (?), Walk, Mystical Tutor (?), and the Wishes. First off I am only going to discuss the 2 that have ? next to them, as much debate has come over thse 2 cards.  Balance?  How many times has that card won me the game?  But then again, it was advantagous back in the day, but in todays meta, when your average Tog/Stax deck only has 3 lands in play, or when your Mud player has a Skullcap in play, or simply when someone Slavers you, and screws you more royally wiht your own balance than any other card in your deck....sorry poor boy, but Balance, you just ain't what you used to be.  Cut.  Now, Mystical Tutor.  She gets your draw, she gets your wishes, she gets your critter kill.  Keeper is all about getting what it needs to stay in control.  yes it would prefer to "get it now"  but sorry, Demonic Tutor is restricted and next to Vamp, she's the bizbizzle.  Not to mention that Keeper now plays Brainstorm, Mystical Tutor is some good gents.  No reson not to run her.  she gets you Kill card as well.  she gets everything in the deck except for Moxen, Matrix, Humility and Monkeys.  I don't know but I honestly don't think tat is much worse than the Vamp.  And the fact that she is Forceable.  No reason not to run her, no reason at'll.  
     Now the mana base.  With the 2 swords, HUmility and 3 Decree, Tundra is absolutely a 4 of.  Obviously Underground is as well with 2 tutors, Twist and Y. WIN and 2-3 Scrying.  Now how many Volc's?  With 3 Mox Monkey, and 1 Fire/ice a min of 3, you absolutley need that first turn Red mana if you got the Ape.  First turn ape swings so many games in your favor.  It is a crucial peice of any deck that runs red.  OF course your 4 fetches, which you can lla choose on what amt/order as long as the fetch blue lands.  and then your 5 strips.  And yes, Library of I WIN, is definitly a keeper (no pun intended) in Matrix Keeper.  Not so in scepter Keeper, but that obv due to the amt of cards you will be Imprinting.  Libray of I WIN has been restricted forever for nothing.  Now with all this in mind, I finally give you my current Keeper decklist:

Evolution of the Matrix v. 1.0

Draw (8)
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Brainstorm
3 Skeletal Scrying
1 Fact or Fiction

Counters (9)
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection

Tutors (5)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Cunning Wish

Utility (6)
1 Humility
2 Dampning Matrix
1 Yawgmoth's WIN
1 Mind Twist
1 Time Walk

Critter Kill (3)
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Fire/ice

Kill (6)
3 Decree of Justice
3 Gorilla Shaman

Mana (24)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of I WIN

Now, the sideboard, I leave up to you.  I would suggest mayb seom more instatn critter kill, Maybe some REB/BEB, and a COP red (sligh still exists, not to mention FCG) And, if you had not noticed, yes, I have 61 cards in the deck.  But as I have posted, every one of these cards deserves the slot it is in.  The only thing I could think of is to drop the 3rd Scying to the SB.  That would give you your 60 cards.  Thank you and discuss

Also, I would like to mention this is one of my first serious deck discussion articles (or post) and would also like to know what people think of my writing/arguments.  Also I do not have access to the t1 Forum, only the t1 Open Forum, so if this is deemed "good enough"  I asked that it be moved.  Thank you again.

Serracollector

[Kowal]

This list needs an insane amount of work.

For starters, cutting Balance is absolutely and completely unacceptable.  I had an interesting argument with Roland Bode the other day, and even though I was pro Balance and he was devil's advocate, it was clear we both agreed it went in keeper.  It's the card that saves you when you shouldn't be allowed to be saved, it's the mind twist that doesn't require help from Drain to set up, and it's the wrath effect you can mystical for.  If you find it not doing enough, you're not playing well enough.

Not running fetches is also inexcusable.  Manabase stability is key, you're running four colors, and you need to be able to get access to all of them, often in the face of wastelands.  You're striving to reach WW for Humility, and your manabase is the opposite of optimized for that purpose.

Now for stuff that's much more opinionated.

Your off color mox will eventually be cut for something that either produces or fetches on color mana.  That's just the way it works, because otherwise a timely waste or two from decks like Big O will wreck you.

You're running Vampiric Tutor maindecked.  I can see why this is cute for you, being as it fetches your Humility and Damping Matrix.  But it would be better off as a Cunning Wish, so you can board the vamp and thus pretend you have three vamps instead of one.

You'll find with three Scrying, your graveyard will cease to have things you want to remove, if you want to keep Will as a juicy bomb.  You've cut the fourth brainstorm to fit the third scrying it seems.  This is a huge mistake.  Brainstorm becomes a pseudo-ancestral when you put the fetches in.  You'll run four eventually, whether you listen to me now or not, just because you'll realize how insanely good they are.

Another thing about fetches is that they allow you to run a basic island, so you don't autolose to blood moon.

And finally, please address this better:  Three maindecked Shamans, despite the three maindeck cards that COMPLETELY negate their effect.


EDIT:  I forgot to address misdirection.  For reference, I've checked some of the top decks for things you can misdirect.
Slaver:  Ancestral, 4x Force
Big O:  2x Naturalize (sometimes)
Dragon:  Ancestral, 4x Force
Hulk:  x Deep Analysis, Ancestral, 4x Force, 4x Drain
Landstill:  Swords/Bolt, 4x Drain, 4x Force
TPS/Draw7/Deathlong:  Ancestral, Tendrils (sort of)

I fail to see how this is a metagame call at all.  It looks like a sure fire way to lose to control by tearing your hand apart conditionally (and usually in their favor) and it looks like it's completely dead against everything else.

[johnstown713]

Very nice job on the article and it reminded me of a primer.  IMO I would up the count of matrix to 3 and the count of humility to 2.  I can't see playing 3 skeletal scryings when you need life and cards in the grave.  I would play 2 and up the brainstorm count to 4.  I like the choice of misderection seeing as how I think it fits todays metagame.  Do you find that you hardcast the decree or do you always end up cycling for the win.  What is wrong with the meddling mages.  Are they that bad lately?  Overall good job on the post.

Johnstown713

[BreathWeapon]

I really don't see any new innovations here, and Zherbus already covered the basic facts in his own Primer. To be honest, i'd rather play EBA or Landstill over Keeper right now if I became tired of the Tog. I don't think Keeper has anything to offer us until we see Crucible of Worlds in print. Inevitably, Keeper is always going to be (and remain) a metagamed control deck.

[Eddie]

First of all, I had some trouble reading the complete article. Spelling and grammar could be better. I'm not that good at it, but I try to do my best...

3 skeletal scrying is too much main. At least, put one of those in the side to wish for. You are correct when saying that this card is really great. But I would not want 3 of them. Yes, you can cycle them early on, but brainstorm does that too, and will improve your overall hand quality.

3 Brainstorms is not good either, you need 4 of them. I used to play with 3 and switched to 4. Not just because of the fetchlands (which you are missing). Even if you do not use any fetchlands, you should use 4 brainstorms. You need to be able to dig in your deck. Not only that, but brainstorm will often change an average hand to a good hand. And now that we are talking about it, why don't you have any fetchlands?  You need them to correct your manabase. Agreed, strip effects are not that popular anymore, but getting the kind of mana you want right now is not bad. Also, you will not be topdecking land midgame. Maybe that's why you thought of the 3rd scrying, to avoid landfloods? Trust me, put them in right now.

Misdirection is not a good call, certainly in your metagame as you described it. Also, putting vampiric in the side might be an option. I've tested both and I feel it belongs in the side. But putting it main is not that bad.

Humility however is not a good card. I've tested it, played a tournament with it, and even tested some more after I already knew the card was not that good. Really, what good does it do? All creature abilities are gone with matrix. Sure, it makes fat less interesting. But it will be a lost cause when you finally get to cast it. I mean, it has WW, and you are not even using fetchlands. There are some serious manabase problems when comparing it to your card choice.

Anyway, damping might be good main depending on the meta. But I doubt that any meta contains that much slavery that you would need it main. You can't hope to cast this against Tog. Even so if you did, they would just build up with their draw engine and blow it away before they kill with Tog. Tog will almost always draw more cards than keeper, and it will win that final counterwar it is saving for. Tog only needs to win that one war being the more aggressive deck. Damping is a good choice for the side when you expect a lot of slavery decks. (I don't mention masks, cause they are not that common right now).

I would add a second fire/ice though. The more I play it, the more I love the card. So I'd go 2 swords and 2 fire/ice for spot removal. Often, ice will buy you an extra turn AND cantrips. It seems you are only looking at the fire part.

I cannot believe you've cut balance. It is one of the most important cards in the deck. I cannot imagine playing without it. Cast at the right moment, it will win you the game.

3 Decrees is the correct amount. I feel the 3rd is important against aggro matchups. An early cycle will buy you some time. 3 shamans however is over the top. 2 is the correct amount I believe, and that's when I'm not looking at the maindeck cards that close it down. Yes, it is nice to use the shaman before dropping a matrix. But drawing them after you did is a draw you lost.

I think you will have problems with this build. Especially with a manabase like that, and a brainstorm less to help correcting it.

[serracollector]

Wow, such an idiotic mistake.  I can't beleive I forgot the fetches.  I was looking at the list and thinking "Wow it all fits extremely well", now I know why LOL.  The deck DOES have 4 fetches, I am just an idiot nad spent like an hour typing the article, and then forgot to put them in  Also, some things I agree with, but some I do not.  First off Balance.  In the current meta, How many times has Balance really worked?  Either your opponent is trying to Kill you turns 1-3 (Dragon/Tendrils) or They are trying to lock you (Slaver/Stax).   So if you balance, you will be losing land most of the time, or losing cards in hand.  If you do use it as a Twist, and go into Top Deck mode, combo with Bazaar/Draw 7's or Slaver with its 9 Draw 3's (storm/Ancestral/Thirst) and the Draw sevens are just more than likely gonna top deck before you do.  I can see Balance as a sideboard card, but not a maindeck one.

As for MisD, it is good for the Meta especially compared to Stifle (which was my point entirely).   Having your regular 4 Drain/4 Force along with another Free Counter (true only for their counters and Draw, but still a free counter.)  If you do face something such as Stax/O Stomp or TnT, then you can always drop the MisD for SB, but it is good enough in the current meta to be maindecked.  

The 3rd Scrying vs the Brainstorm, as I said , this may change, and you all make good points on it.  I will drop the 3rd Scrying to the side, but adding the 4th storm....I still needsome more testing, I just hate Brainstorming into another brainstorm.  I honestly don't know.

Vampiric, errrgg, just so good main.  but having 2 vs 1 with the wishes, is very justifiable.  I honestly have to agree 100%.    Simply enough its sided.  

As for humility and 2 Matrix minadeck, I have found this to be perfect in my testing.  Yes, after one has dropped sometimes the other is useless, but look at EBA and FCG and TnT, does Matrix stop them as well?  Simply put, no.  Humility is GREAT.


With these considerations among other suggestions here is the "new" decklist, with updates in Bold.

Evolution of the Matrix v. 1.1

Draw (8)
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Skeletal Scrying
1 Fact or Fiction

Counters (9)
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection

Tutors (4)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Cunning Wish

Utility (6)
1 Humility
2 Dampning Matrix
1 Yawgmoth's WIN
1 Mind Twist
1 Time Walk

Critter Kill (3)
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Fire/Ice

Kill (5)
3 Decree of Justice
2 Gorilla Shaman

Mana (26)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of I WIN
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

-1 Gorilla Shaman/1 Vamp/1 Mox Emerald/1 Scrying/1 Underground Sea

SideBoard
2 Fire/Ice
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Disenchant
1 Coffin Purge
1 Balance
2 Dampning Matrix
1 The Abyss
2 Energy Flux

I considered the idea of 2 Fire/Ice maindeck, but remember that Decree and even Mox Monkeys work as critter kill once a Humilit hits play.  As for the sideboard, this is for my Meta.  Against stax/Mud, drop the 2 Matrix's for Energy Flux, and possibly the Disenchant.  Against beats you got another Swords and 2 Fire/Ice, and just an idea, I may start playtesting Propaganda.  When O Stompy and TnT need 2 extra mana to attack, it works almost as well as Moat.  Remember Workshop can't help a Propaganda. Anyway, thank you for the advice and the commentary, once agin so sorry for the bonehead no Fetches ( I seriuosly did not do that on purpose).  Continue.

Serracollector

[KSesler]

SerraCollector:

Your most recent version is starting to look alot more like the traditional Keeper builds we are used to seeing.

However, I agree with others regarding Balance.
This card has saved me many times in various Keeper Builds, and I can't see ever cutting it.

I have used Humility a bit, and it has worked ok.
The 2WW cost makes it harder to cast early and protect though, and my manabase had to change to something close to your newer version of Keeper to support it.

Humility AND 2 Damping Matrix MD is a bit much, however, especially with tutors and Brainstorms.

At the very least, I would drop either Humility or 1 DM MD and put balance back in.

I will be interested to see how your build works out in real life against the Big Boys in Ohio area. I wish you the best, but am a bit skeptical about the aspects of the deck I mentioned above.

[Zherbus]

This last build isn't too far off from one of my (almost 2 months old now)primer builds. The Exceptions being that you Have 1 more Shaman, where I had another Wish (I saw that Dampign Matrix + Shaman wasn't always great) and you replaced BALANCE with uber-slow and clunky Humility. That said, I don't see why you'd use Energy Flux in a deck where you have access to red and white.

I see where you're going with Matrix - I was there too. I stopped running them because they look much better on paper than in reality.  Damping Matrix is nothing that Rack and Ruin couldn't take care of. In other words, they only slow Slaver down for example. For Slaver, you most certainly want to Shaman away as much as possible and keep both Gilded Lotus and Welder off the board.

[Jakedasnake]

It seems like you took all the good things Keeper had and made them worse.

But seriously, this is a perfect example of a decklist that popped out of your head, with you thinking you'd made some strong cards choices...bladdabladda.

Anyway, right now I really can't see people playing Keeper without Chains of Mephistopheles. The card just wrecks house against 'Tog, and really improves the Control Slaver matchup, while only marginally weakening the random aggro matchup. However, it really sucks against Workshop, but Chains is a meta card, and you wouldn't play it in a Workshop environment anyway.