New approach to artifact aggro

[Rico Suave]

Alright, so I've been having some fun with this lately and wanted to share it for ideas and whatnot.

Suicide, vs. 2.0
Creatures (14)
2 Memnarch
4 Triskelion
4 Sundering Titan
4 Goblin Welder

Disruption (8)
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Draw (9)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

Mana (29)
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Volcanic Island
3 Shivan Reef
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

SB:  3 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Platinum Angel
SB:  1 Memnarch
SB:  4 Rack and Ruin
SB:  3 Gorilla Shaman
SB:  3 Red Elemental Blast

The list is pretty straightforward - creatures, draw, disruption.  The reason I named it Suicide is because it performs exactly like it: disrupt, then beatdown.  The difference is your disruption is the game-ending Trinisphere, your beatdown is twice as big, and you have card-draw to boot (think back to old Necro builds).  You even get to have a permanent Dark Ritual, and a full amount of Moxen to abuse!  

The reason to use creatures as opposed to more lock parts is because they are not just big beaters, but they have instant game-impact.  Titan will often elicit concessions from people, Memnarch is really good, and Trisk will wreck people, not to mention give you a strong advantage against opposing Welder decks with it.  In a way, Titan/Memnarch ARE lock parts, just in a different fashion.

So why play this deck?  The first reason to play this deck is Trinisphere.  That card is simply ridiculous.  Secondly, you get more of a good game against Tog, since you aren't required to fully lock the board early or lose.  Tog only have to resolve Tog and Stax is floating in the water.  This deck will drop more and more bombs like Titan, which make the "Tog ASAP" plan less reliable.  Finally, you get to avoid a number of hate cards like Null Rod, since beatdown dodges them.  Workshop Slaver employs this same plan after boarding, but you come equipped with it.

This deck is a load of fun to play.  Give it a shot and say what you think.

[kakeboy07]

I dont know if it was an oversight, but wouldnt timetwister fit in here great? synergy with trini, and 3 cc is sooo easy for you... id think that it would make it over Trike #4

[Sytupal]

This deck reminds me of Smmenen's decklist on Morphling.de  in his thread found here:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15814

The only differences in my mind are the Sundering Titans and The Trinispheres, which Smennen had sideboarded anyways.(The Trinispheres that is)

The manabase from taking a quick look seems like a mirror image.

I don't really see the logic in memnarch.   I'm by far one of the bigger advocators of this card seeing play in type 1, however,  this deck is "beatdown" and memnarch just doesn't fit.    

He hits solidly for 4 damage however I'd much rather have a Juggernaut in such a situation.  You aren't going for the abilities of your creatures, you're going for :

turn 1: Trinisphere
turn 2: fat
turn 3: More fat
turn 4:  Oh wait, more fat?  

What i think is cool about this deck is that you can instantly change it into Smemnarch at any point during games 2 and 3 by having Mindslaver in the board just incase the beats aren't working,  siding out the titans for slavers.   However,  as it looks right now to me, it seems that you're trying to do one too many things at once.  

My opinion?   Pick one or the other,  if you want the aggro approach i would reconsider memnarch.

If you want the controllish build, where are the slavers and why is that titan in there?  


my .02 cents.       I like the idea of Sundering Titans, just maybe not here.

PS:   You noted Memnarch as a lock part.   While this looks solid on paper it is very mana consuming and isn't something you want to be doing while trying to push out the fat.

[Dante]

Rico - I like the theme, I have been thinking of a U/r type deck, but haven't had time to test anything.

Thoughts off the top of my head:

- None of your fat can come down early.  Suicide and TnT which CAN lead with duress/hymn or sphere/bloodmoon, but they can also lead with turn 1 ritual -> negator or workshop,mox -> juggernaut, giving them the choice between fat or disruption.  You don't have that option here -  All of your fat costs 6 or more, so if you don't have a sphere or chalice to play, you're looking at turn 3 before you can play a creature, which seems too slow.  Of course I haven't playtested any hands, but it just looks like it's begging for some Juggs.


....I had more thoughts, but got interruped at work and now can't make sense of them....

[Rico Suave]

Alright, thanks for the replies.

kakeboy07:
I'm not sure where to stuff it.  I've been reluctant to cut Trisks, but I may as well give it a shot.

Sytupal:

The only differences in my mind are the Sundering Titans and The Trinispheres, which Smennen had sideboarded anyways.(The Trinispheres that is)

The manabase from taking a quick look seems like a mirror image.

This deck and Slavery play out entirely differently.  

Slaver generally tries to establish a Slaver lock.  This deck doesn't want any hard lock, it just aims to disrupt, then beatdown.  I tried to mention it before, but it plays out a lot like Suicide does, which isn't anything close to Slaver.

This is reflected in choices like maindeck Trinisphere, the use of Wastelands, the lack of Gilded Lotus, and 3x as much beatdown.

I don't really see the logic in memnarch. I'm by far one of the bigger advocators of this card seeing play in type 1, however, this deck is "beatdown" and memnarch just doesn't fit.

He hits solidly for 4 damage however I'd much rather have a Juggernaut in such a situation. You aren't going for the abilities of your creatures, you're going for :

turn 1: Trinisphere
turn 2: fat
turn 3: More fat
turn 4: Oh wait, more fat?

Actually, I am going for the abilities of my creatures.  That's why I included them and not, say, Juggernaut.  

The problem with beatdown in T1 is that it gives your opponent time to do things, and T1 more than any other format can be very deadly if you give your opponent extra time.  Juggernaut lets them find Tog and win.  Memnarch steals their Tog.  That's a world of difference, and the number of things Memnarch will steal isn't limited to Tog.

Dante:
This deck also has Welder, and discarding something to Thirst can bring it out fairly quickly.  I still understand where you're coming from, though.

If this deck were to add Juggernauts, it would be over Trisk.  The problem is that Trisk is really good, and kills Welders among other things.

[Lockdown]

Oddly looks like U/R TNT, removing the Survivals for card drawing.  You'll notice that a good portion of TNT decks now also run "disruption", in the form of Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, or Tangle Wire, though a lot of the ones that I can think of are probably outdated.  Couple things, why is Platinum Angel sideboarded?  It is a house, and even if you only run one, I don't see why it isn't MD.  You don't really need 4 Sundering Titans or Triskelions do you?  Two seems like a better number to me.  You might also consider some of the other creatures used in TNT like Su-chi, Karn, Solemn Simulacrum, or even Phyrexian Colossus.

[Vegeta2711]

You don't really need 4 Sundering Titans or Triskelions do you?

Actually, yes, yes he does. It's really hard to play a beatdown game w/o consistently having one in your hand or being able to weld one into play.

[Lockdown]

Ok then.  I was merely suggesting that he cut a couple and replace them with some of the fat that TNT uses.  I suppose Sundering Titan is bigger than Su-chi, Karn, or Solemn Simulacrum, I just don't see why he needs 4 Triskelions as they are 4/4s with the ability to ping.  Running 4 would indicate that he wants to get it out consistently every game.  They just don't seem useful enough to warrant that when compared to MD Platinum Angel, Karn, or  any of the other creatures I mentioned.

[Vegeta2711]

@Lockdown

They just don't seem useful enough to warrant that when compared to MD Platinum Angel, Karn, or any of the other creatures I mentioned.

Ok let me go over this one by one.

1. Su-Chi - So we have a mighty 4/4 just like Trike, except it can't ping anything and will burn me for 4 damage when it dies. Oh yes, that's lovely, may I have another? Just spend the extra 2 mana for a creature that doesn't suck.

2. Juggernaut (Because we were talking about TnT) - A 5/3 that HAS to run into whatever blocker your opponent may have, has 0 evasion and does nothing but swing. As mindless as the deck seems, there's a underlying line of usefulness and disruption this guy doesn't even come close to it.

3. Karn - A 0/8 beatstick. I'll let you figure out just how svg that is in this kind of deck. I mean... you can swing with Trinisphere! How good!

4. Solemn Simulacrum - 7/10, 4/5, 4/4 > 2/2 last time I checked. Your suggesting a small creature in a deck which is built around dropping FAT. The extra land it finds is nonsignficant and the extra card you draw when it dies will only make up for the crappy creature you had to play to get it.

5. P. Angel - Probably the only creature that doesn't really suck out of those listed thus far. Sadly it only really shines against Combo and everywhere else it's just worse than one of the other creatures.

6. Phyrexian Colossus - Riiiiiiiiiiight. Like anyone really wants to pay 8 life to untap him after one swing. Thanks anyways.

Just to reinterate though, what Rico said earlier will now be listed.

Actually, I am going for the abilities of my creatures. That's why I included them and not, say, Juggernaut.

[wizmentor]

Frantic Search has would let you dig, discard fatties
into the yard, and possibly produce mana.

As opposed to, say, Careful study, it has synergy
with trinisphere.

The question, in my mind, is how many colored spells
can the mana base support?

Just my $0.02

peace, superdad

p.s. It's funny how the new face of reanimator has
artifacts and no black.

[Rico Suave]

Oddly looks like U/R TNT, removing the Survivals for card drawing.  

I tried to stress this in the first post, but this deck plays like suicide.  It is not TnT, and none of the traditional TnT creatures fit into this.  TnT's purpose is beatdown, then other things.  This deck's purpose is disruption, then beatdown, which is why I said it plays more like suicide than anything else.

That's a very important characteristic, and is the key reason why straight beatdown isn't so hot in here.  You don't want a Juggernaut, you want a Trisk to disrupt their Welders.  You don't want Su-Chi, you want Memnarch to disrupt their junk.  

Platinum Angel is pretty nifty, but the problem here is that the other options are better, generally.  Karn can disrupt, but his problem is that he's an 0/8, and therefore not a beatstick.

superdad:

I like Frantic Search.  I'll stuff that in somewhere and see how it does.

[defector]

I like the list, I went a different route (w/b), but the idea qwas the same, disrupt followed by the smack.  I run sphere over chalice, just a metagam choice I think.  My plan was to lock mana curve trough costand exploit man land and gilded lotus.  These decks are not TNT because TNT is Aggr-Combo, these decks are Control-Aggro.  Control is not always "i respind with mana drain", turn 1 2sphere/chalice/sphere of resist is proactive control that in many ways is more brutal and grinding than "I saved uu for u".
Have you considered stifle in theboard, I love to stifle stuff, wheni played r/u, stifling mog fanatic or a fetch could be game breaking.  Anyway, good luck with the build, I like the direction your taking.
defector

[Alfred]

I know this may sound REALLY dumb, but could Show and Tell make it's way into the deck? By the looks of it, you have a LOT of high casting cost creatures and artifacts, and show and tell could add another way of getting them into play, as well as upping the amount of "must counter" spells in your deck. With show and tell in your deck, your deck would probably be much more consistant, not to mention being synergistic with 3sphere. It would also be in keeping with the suicide theme, acting as an "uber dark ritual".

[defector]

I don't like show and tell, I won't like it until rector decks are no longer seeing play.  There's nothing like putting a big creature into play only to be combod out the next turn.  If you have rector light meta, maybe.
defector

[wuaffiliate]

rector decks dont see play, huzzah!!!

this deck really is faster than some people realise

[Alfred]

My suggested test for the deck:

-1 time walk
-1 chalice of the void
-1 wheel of fortune

+3 show and tell

[Apollyon]

Alfred, from playing Stax, I can state already that removing Time Walk and Wheel of Fortune is a bad idea.

There is nothing that is better than taking another turn for 1U, except horrifically broken cards. Wheel of Fortune provides much-needed draw.
Cutting a Chalice might be fine, depending on what you are replacing it with.

Show and Tell sounds good, but, after testing from Stax (which runs a similar mana base), I found that most of my lands late-game were dead draws, as I'd already have enough mana for everything in my deck.

As for Memnarch, I'm not sure about it. I'll admit that I haven't tested it at all, but it strikes me as not being as good in a deck like this, which is U/R Sui. It seems to be mana-intensive, which is one of the reasons that Morphling got dropped from Keeper (besides the fact that Goblin Trenches worked better vs Stax). It could be good, but I haven't tested it.

Trike is really good. It was one of my MVPs at the Dual Lotus, along with Karn and Thirst for Knowledge. Note: Karn does not belong in this deck. It's great in Stax, where you make your Smokestacks and Wires into beats, but you don't have any artifacts that want to attack to make Karn good.

[Rico Suave]

I'll try and take these one at a time.

defector:

W/B is an interesting choice for colors in a deck like this.  What's in W/B that is more attractive than U/R?

I guess you could run Sphere over Chalice, but Chalice is a brutal machine.  It shuts down so many decks by itself.  What kind of metagame are we looking at where Sphere is more painful than Chalice?

I didn't think of Stifle.  It might work out better than Tormod's Crypt in the SB, since that's the obvious choice against Dragon anyway and they'll be prepared for it.  Some instants alongside some permanents is always a good mix, so I'll give that a shot.

Alfred:

Show and Tell scares me since it is the antithesis of many cards in this deck.  The entire point of choices like Trinisphere, Chalice, Titan, and Wastelands is so that my opponent's don't play their spells, but Show and Tell almost defeats that purpose.  

Also, there is no downside to Time Walk in this deck.  In Stax you've got stuff like Wire/Stack eating away at your board, but you don't have those in this deck.  Instead you get large beatdown, which has lots of synergy with taking an extra turn.

Apollyon:

Yes, there are many times when Memnarch is too mana intensive to use it's ability.  On the other hand, there will be times where you use it's ability and break the game in half.  How often do you have to use it's ability in order for it to be good?  I've always wondered this question myself, actually.  Many cards aren't useful all the time.  Take Mind Twist, for instance.  It's dead if your opponent has no hand (therefore it's bad in a topdecking war), but I'd still run it anyway because when it works, it just wins.  The bonus here is that while Mind Twist is dead, Memnarch is at least a 4/5.

Also note that many things it steals don't take so much mana to do so.  Nevinyrral's Disk, for instance, is a pretty nice steal with just 4 mana.  Moxen are always good, and stealing a Gilded Lotus will only fuel things further.  You can steal a Smokestack to sac it to itself, or your opponent's Juggernauts/Su-Chi's.  I've even had opponents tell me they would've Slaved me, but they didn't have 10 full mana to drop and activate Slaver before I would've stolen it.  Those are just artifacts, too.

I was skeptical about it at first, but he did earn himself a 2nd slot.  I'm not saying he's not able to be cut, mind you, just that he's proven himself to be pretty good.

Oh, yea, and Trike is definitely really cool.  He gives an amazing edge against other Welder decks, not to mention he crushes weenie creatures (not the biggest concern, but it does come up against things like FCG, Vengeur Mask, and the occassional Sui/WW/Sligh decks that show up).  

At anyrate, on a more general note I've been very dissatisfied with the draw-7's lately.  Not because they aren't good, but because I already have 5 2U spells, and more spells in that same slot can clog things up.  This also bled over into Frantic Search, which would normally be pretty good in here if it weren't for the fact Thirst was so good.  

I wanted to cut down to something like Brainstorm, since that curves really nicely in conjunction with the other card draw.  I also wanted to try Thoughtcast too.

Oh yea, and Lotus Petal was cut from the original list for a Shivan Reef.  

That's about it for now, keep 'em coming!

[Masticor]

What about Lightning Greaves to Protect your Welders and give them haste so you can bring Titans in play from your graveyard at instant speed and attack in the same turn.

Triskelion is really an excellent Idea against all these Aggro decks. You just shoot all their Creatures down and then use your welder to change the "empty" Trisk for something better.

[wizmentor]

Rico,
     You've described this deck as being like "Suicide" - disrupt, then drop threats.  To me, it's like both Sui and Keeper in this it is a Land Destruction (aka Mana Denial) Deck.  I think if you'd explain it this way, you wouldn't get "Do you really need 4 Sundering Titans?"/"What about Juggernaut?" questions.  Just something to think about if you ever write a primer.

At anyrate, on a more general note I've been very dissatisfied with the draw-7's lately.  Not because they aren't good, but because I already have 5 2U spells, and more spells in that same slot can clog things up.  This also bled over into Frantic Search, which would normally be pretty good in here if it weren't for the fact Thirst was so good.  

I wanted to cut down to something like Brainstorm, since that curves really nicely in conjunction with the other card draw.  I also wanted to try Thoughtcast too.

Oh yea, and Lotus Petal was cut from the original list for a Shivan Reef.  

That's about it for now, keep 'em coming!

First, once u understand the LD theme, then you can see that this deck is VERY tight. It can play beatdown or control effectively.  In fact it can do both at the same time. (Swing with Titan/Weld for another). Looking over the list, the weak link IMHO was Lotus Petal, but you took it out already.  Here's some other ideas:

1)   Instead of replacing the Lotus Petal with a Shivan Reef, how about a putting in a Dust Bowl for extra Land D.  Again, it's only a suggestion as I don't know if you're getting enough of your colored sources.

2)   Memnarch is good and all, but how about a Karn in the side instead of a 3rd Mem.  With Karn, you could kill a few moxes the turn he came into play, which would be harder for the mana hungry mem.  This could be important tempo-wise.

3)   I know the emphasis of the deck is LD Beatdown, but it's hard to believe that a deck with 29 mana sources and 4 welders wouldn't want 2 or 3 slavers in the board.  Yes, it depends on the metagame, but old type 2 MBC would give this deck some trouble - Slavers would turn that around in a hurry.  (I'm not sure my tone's coming across correctly - I don't think the deck "sucks".  Quite the contrary, I think it's cool.  I just think it vulnerable to creature hate.  perhaps your high-powered meta does not have this.  Mine does.)

4)   The more I think about it, as you have tinker, a singleton mindslaver would not be out of order.  Indeed a mystical tutor would be an excellent addition.  No, I have no idea what you should take out.

peace, superdad

[Alfred]

@ Rico Suave

In regards to your argument against show and tell, I think there are a few things you are overlooking. You said that show and tell had anti-synergy with chalice of the void and 3sphere, I would have to disagree. For example, look at as sui, the disruption in suicide black was never designed to kill the opponent (although sometimes it did), it was meant to slow down the opponent long enough for undercosted creatures to kill them, the same applies for trinisphere and wasteland, which don't stop your opponent from playing spells, it just slows them down. Which makes it important to get a game ending threat on the board ASAP.

As for chalice of the void, this card was never meant to stop permanents from being played, it was more designed to stop cheap instants and sorceries. For example, most of the important creatures in the format cost 3+ mana, which makes it hard to stop them with chalice. As for other permanents, the only realistic thing that I would fear being dropped would be moat, and that doesn't see much play outside EBA.

My final point is that whatever you would be dropping from show and tell would trump what almost every other deck would drop. Show and tell into sundering titan would be SICK.

[Vegeta2711]

If we wanted to play Show and Tell, we'd play STD.

[RoadTrippin]

If we wanted to play Show and Tell, we'd play STD.

And if we wanted STD's, we'd play show and tell.

But to add something serious to this post- I tested the deck a little with a few minor changes of my own, and I love it. I'm not sure I experienced what you talked about by saying it plays out like Slaver, and I'm sure this goes deeper than a few alternate card choices I've made, but it's a really cool and definitely a playable deck.

[Elric]

Alfred- recently, there have been more cards that compare to Sundering Titan.  Think Exalted Angel, Gilded Lotus, Memnarch, well, not Phage, but you get the idea.  Exalted Angel can race Titan, Food Chain Goblins can combo-kill you.  Meandeck Slaver has only Volcanic Islands to destroy with Titan, and Show and Tell helps them get one step closer to slave-locking you.  You don’t want to play a card that some other decks can abuse as well as you can.

Rico, I really like the deck.  Have you considered Metalworker at all?  With 32 (edit- 28, I overcounted by mistake) artifacts and a lot of high casting cost cards, it might be worth a try.  Metalworkers could make this feel more like BroodstarRunner, though.  I drew some test hands with the deck and it seems like early it is very hard to get enough mana to use Memnarchs’ ability (even 3U can be hard).  I was definitely surprised by how quickly the deck can play its creatures—turn 3 Sundering Titans are not hard to come by.

I know you added another Shivan Reef, but do you have enough colored (red) mana post-sideboard?  If you bring in R&R and Gorilla Shaman vs. a deck like Meandeck Slaver, is having only 11 permanent sources of colored mana (9 red) a problem?

[Rico Suave]

What about Lightning Greaves to Protect your Welders and give them haste so you can bring Titans in play from your graveyard at instant speed and attack in the same turn.

Well, what would you recommend cutting?  

I used to use them a while ago, but I quickly put them in the SB in favor of other cards (more threats), then they were ultimately cut to what is currently in there.

1) Instead of replacing the Lotus Petal with a Shivan Reef, how about a putting in a Dust Bowl for extra Land D. Again, it's only a suggestion as I don't know if you're getting enough of your colored sources.

2) Memnarch is good and all, but how about a Karn in the side instead of a 3rd Mem. With Karn, you could kill a few moxes the turn he came into play, which would be harder for the mana hungry mem. This could be important tempo-wise.

3) I know the emphasis of the deck is LD Beatdown, but it's hard to believe that a deck with 29 mana sources and 4 welders wouldn't want 2 or 3 slavers in the board. Yes, it depends on the metagame, but old type 2 MBC would give this deck some trouble - Slavers would turn that around in a hurry. (I'm not sure my tone's coming across correctly - I don't think the deck "sucks". Quite the contrary, I think it's cool. I just think it vulnerable to creature hate. perhaps your high-powered meta does not have this. Mine does.)

4) The more I think about it, as you have tinker, a singleton mindslaver would not be out of order. Indeed a mystical tutor would be an excellent addition. No, I have no idea what you should take out.

1) This deck really likes colored mana, in fact I want to add more, although I haven't figured out what yet.  Petal was only included because it could produce colored mana.  I have no idea where to stuff Dust Bowl, although it would fit nicely if I could activate it underneath a Trinisphere since this deck has lots of land to fuel it.

2) Well, the only time I'd want to destroy Moxen like that is in Workshop mirrors, where I bring in Gorilla Shaman anyway.  You'd have to make a really good case to use Karn over Shaman there, since Shaman is one mana compared to Karn's 5.

Also, when you use Memnarch on Moxen, you don't destroy them, you take them to fuel more stealing.  Just a slight difference.

3+4) Creature hate?  What kind of creature hate are we talking here.  That'll help out a bit more.  

Mystical Tutor is a thought.  May as well try it.

Memnarch and Mindslaver are both expensive to use, and Memnarch is heavily debated because of it's mana intensive self.  The only reason I include Memnarch is because it can just randomly beatdown when it's abilities don't work.  Mindslaver can't do that.

It can randomly fuck people up, no doubt, but also keep in mind that Slaving somebody with this deck will oftentimes result in "well, you can't play any spells anyway, so pass the turn."  This deck has a lot of lock parts and disruption, which is counter-productive to a Mindslaver strategy.

I tried them in a previous version and didn't like them, but this looks a bit different now so I may as well give them another shot somewhere.  

@ Rico Suave

In regards to your argument against show and tell, I think there are a few things you are overlooking. You said that show and tell had anti-synergy with chalice of the void and 3sphere, I would have to disagree. For example, look at as sui, the disruption in suicide black was never designed to kill the opponent (although sometimes it did), it was meant to slow down the opponent long enough for undercosted creatures to kill them, the same applies for trinisphere and wasteland, which don't stop your opponent from playing spells, it just slows them down. Which makes it important to get a game ending threat on the board ASAP.

As for chalice of the void, this card was never meant to stop permanents from being played, it was more designed to stop cheap instants and sorceries. For example, most of the important creatures in the format cost 3+ mana, which makes it hard to stop them with chalice. As for other permanents, the only realistic thing that I would fear being dropped would be moat, and that doesn't see much play outside EBA.

My final point is that whatever you would be dropping from show and tell would trump what almost every other deck would drop. Show and tell into sundering titan would be SICK.

Yes, sui does slow them down long enough, which is what this deck tries to do as well.  I just don't understand how Show and Tell fits into that, since it undos all the slowing down by letting them drop things that Wastelands/Trinisphere would otherwise not let them cast.  

Well, Chalice does stop things like Wild Mongrel, Ground Seal, Null Rod, Isochron Scepter, Chains of Mephistopheles, Serenity, Standstill, and lots of other 2cc weenies in Fish/Madness/random-aggro.  Chalice at 3 also stops Tog/Deed, which is game-ending if they aren't prepared for it.  It's not that it was designed for stopping permanents, but it does hinder some serious stuff.

Additionally, you also have to consider that it's 2U, and I even cut draw7's because they clogged that slot, and it's inherently reliant on another card to be useful, so it's generally bad in a topdecking war.  All these factors pile up.  

I'm going to challenge you to find a slot where Show and Tell would fit, since that's what it ultimately boils down to.

But to add something serious to this post- I tested the deck a little with a few minor changes of my own, and I love it. I'm not sure I experienced what you talked about by saying it plays out like Slaver, and I'm sure this goes deeper than a few alternate card choices I've made, but it's a really cool and definitely a playable deck.

Thanks.

Well, I'm not sure where I said it plays out like Slaver; were you talking to someone else?  

Rico, I really like the deck. Have you considered Metalworker at all? With 32 artifacts and a lot of high casting cost cards, it might be worth a try. Metalworkers could make this feel more like BroodstarRunner, though. I drew some test hands with the deck and it seems like early it is very hard to get enough mana to use Memnarchs’ ability (even 3U can be hard). I was definitely surprised by how quickly the deck can play its creatures—turn 3 Sundering Titans are not hard to come by.

I know you added another Shivan Reef, but do you have enough colored (red) mana post-sideboard? If you bring in R&R and Gorilla Shaman vs. a deck like Meandeck Slaver, is having only 11 permanent sources of colored mana (9 red) a problem?

I ran Metalworker in the early versions.  It was insanely hardcore, since you could draw7 off it and go to town dropping Titans left and right.  Now, I have no idea where to stuff them.  

Yes, Memnarch's ability is hard to come by oftentimes.  

I'm working on finding room for more colored mana, which would help with the problems you presented.  I think that also results in Metalworker not making the cut, and I really don't want to cut any spells/threats to make room for it.