[Report]GAT takes more New Jersey Power

[Purple Hat]

ultima, great deck.  I'm just comming out from under the haze of midterms and rereading the site.  I've been planning to recommune with my mana drains for sometime now and this deck looks like it's gonna be the one I go with.

Why don't you play future sight?  my thought is that it's too controlish and slow and the deck just doesn't need it in most cases, but it is a total bomb, especially with fastbond.  also have you got any results from your slavery testing?  I've been playing an echoing decay in the board to catch welders and tried to keep togs away from the board, but that can only do so much.  it seems like you don't like the damping matrix plan in this match up so I'm wondering what your thinking about.

[DavidHernandez]

By the time you drop Future Sight, you are already winning. You really dont need it.

As for Fastbond, I keep going back and forth on it.  Ultima is right in saying that i do not aggressively seek it out.  Normally, I use my tutors to get card drawing like Ancestral or FoF or Thirst.

I'm going to put Fastbond in again (i had removed it for a 22nd mana source), and I will go looking for it more aggressively.

I like FoF main deck with 1 DA.  I was finding that 2 DA put me too close to death, and the fact that they are Sorcery's makes them less desireable to me.

Dave.

[Ultima]

Everything Dave said is true about Sight.  

As far as Slavery, it is the worst match up GAT has.  Dave's tech for it is pretty good but Matrix weakens alot of other matchs at the same time (TNT, Dragon)

Additionally i can tell you that dave and I are in total agreement about sorceries and my new list has NO Deep anals.  Moreover, it is much more combo-based and is geared towards winning against workshop by comboing out faster.  It is much faster than it used to be but may suffer from control matchs a bit more.

[monstre]

Call me crazy, but if you want to go further down the combo route while improving the slavery matchup, I think meditate could be worth a shot.
Hmmm, unless mindslaver and meditate don't interact the way I think they do  

[TimeBeing]

Call me crazy, but if you want to go further down the combo route while improving the slavery matchup, I think meditate could be worth a shot.
Hmmm, unless mindslaver and meditate don't interact the way I think they do  

they don't mindslaver takes your next turn. when ever it is....

[monstre]

Call me crazy, but if you want to go further down the combo route while improving the slavery matchup, I think meditate could be worth a shot.
Hmmm, unless mindslaver and meditate don't interact the way I think they do  

they don't mindslaver takes your next turn. when ever it is....

Oh well, serves me right for thinking I had a clever idea
Sorry about wasting everyone's time...

[eddavatar]

Ultima: How does damping matrix weaken the dragon match? (that on table = GG if they don't run verdant force main deck) And how does it weaken the TnT match if their welders goes on strike. And as I've always said, damping matrix belongs to the sideboard.

And thanks, you guys finally realize how DA doesn't belong to this deck(as we don't run intuition anymore). =)

P.S. @ Dave: If you found fastbond coming in and out of the deck so much, doesn't it imply that it doesn't serve any purpose? (another way to put it is, isn't it the weakest card in the deck?)

Fastbond doesn't pump dryad and puts you at a card loss. If you guys are so scared to use AK because of card disadvantage against Tog, fastbond does the same thing in a differeny way.

And taking a land out for it just weakens it even more.

[Ultima]

@ Eddavatar

Matrix hurts the TNT and Dragon match because you need Togs.  For Dragon, they have remove Ground Seal before doing anything.  With Matrix they can just animate a slagwurm or Force, still leaving you with a problem.  Against TNT, Togs are a must and matrix shuts them down.  Seal does the same thing, cantrips, and keeps Togs active.  I cannot stress enough the importance of togs in the TNT match.

Fastbond is definitely not a dead card.  Without fastbond, you have no combo and not nearly as much speed.  There's always the control route but i think that's far too inconsistent and has some worse match ups.  More often than not, i'm tutoring or searching for fastbond to kill on turn 3-4.  If i get it on turn 1, then 80% of the time, i'm killing on turn 1-2.  Its that good and broken.

[DavidHernandez]

Ed said:

P.S. @ Dave: If you found fastbond coming in and out of the deck so much, doesn't it imply that it doesn't serve any purpose? (another way to put it is, isn't it the weakest card in the deck?)

No. Not when Ultima won a Lotus and a Mox at 2 very high powered tournaments.  I don't play my tutors the way Ultima does, so I'm going to try it his way.

It's VERY hard to argue with his success.

Ultima said:

I cannot stress enough the importance of togs in the TNT match.

Agreed. That's why I'm thinking of running Null Rods in the SB now.

--Dave.

[eddavatar]

Ultima, Dave: Damping Matrix is designed to be in the board to be brought in for tog against slaver. But I just don't see how you can fit 2 matricies main.

More, Isn't the fact that matricies are "weak" against dragon and TnT yet another reason that you should not mainboard them? The horribly synergy of matrix and tog calls for us to interchange them as matchups call. Never defeat yourself with bad synergies.

Null rod is definitely a direction to look into, however.

Dave: Success doesn't mean it's correct. And if you are feeling uncomfortable using fastbond, aren't you better off not using it? I'm not disputing Ultima's use of fastbond in his deck. I'm just saying in general, I found fastbond to be too hard to abuse to justify its use. If a card is to be in a deck, it better has the game-breaking power to justify it. (aka powers-yawg will-tutors) But post gush restriction, I've been absolutely hating the card, since it has no synergy sans the lone gush and yawg will(which is a poor reason for fastbond as fastbond would be a win-more card)

To use fastbond with better results, daze has to be used. But daze is absolute @$$ itself.

Ultima: I really don't understand how fastbond helps the deck combo out when it runs so little land w/ no land bounce or what so ever. Please show me some scenarios. I've tried to use it before, but it does too little or too late.

[Ultima]

I'm not really sure what your referring to as far as Matrix.  When I said Dave's tech was Matrix, I meant that uses 2 matrix in the board instead of 2 ground seals which is what i use.  None of use MD matrix and play togs, we're not that bad.  Dave does however play a dryad hate style deck which he calls She-Hulk.  He may play Matrixs MD here.

Regarding Fastbond, more or less, you simply get a threat, find fastbond, find gush, play some draw spells, then yawgwill and win.  It just happens like that.  Say you get will in your opening hand.  Play a threat, find fastbond, gush, then will it back up for the kill.  Its just like old GAT, but sometimes its a bit slower because you need to tutor for the gush or will indstead of drawing into it with gushes.

[DavidHernandez]

Success doesn't mean it's correct.

I can't believe you said that...

Anyway, your arguments against Fastbond are the same ones I use.  I'm going to try to play it the way Ultima does, which is to aggressively seek out the Fastbond.

Dave.

[BreathWeapon]

From what i've seen, Matrix is simply necessary for any form of Aggro Control (MD or SB). You absolutely MUST have a way to neutralize Hulk's Togs long enough to drop their life total.

Ok, now this is going to seem REAL jank, but have you guys considered using Wonder at all in the MD or the SB to circumvent Hulk's Togs? With 3 Togs of your own and 4 Thirsts, i've pondered trying it out. Mmm, Extended Jank tank

[Ultima]

From what i've seen, Matrix is simply necessary for any form of Aggro Control (MD or SB). You absolutely MUST have a way to neutralize Hulk's Togs long enough to drop their life total.

Ok, now this is going to seem REAL jank, but have you guys considered using Wonder at all in the MD or the SB to circumvent Hulk's Togs? With 3 Togs of your own and 4 Thirsts, i've pondered trying it out. Mmm, Extended Jank tank

Really what ends up happening most of the time when playing Hulk is, you drop a threat early and they end up trying to get a smother, Tog, or deed.  Almost never does the Hulk player get a threat down before you do.

It is because of this that I tend to not think matrix or wonder are necassary against Tog.

[eddavatar]

@ Dave: The reason I said success doesn't equal correct is because a lot of factors affects the outcome. A deck might be good in a meta but flat suck in some others (e.g. Oshawa Stompy in Toronto a few months ago) Play style also affects the value of a card. (e.g. the whole Opt vs Sleigh of Hand issue for pre-restriction GATs) The use of fastbond for Ultima suit his style of playing, that's why he is winning. But it's not necessarily correct due to the lack of synergy.

Like remember that awful dood that played GAT against me back in nationals last year? He played janks like PEEK and sylvan library, but he was doing as well as the field that day. He was successful, but was he running the correct build?

From what i've seen, Matrix is simply necessary for any form of Aggro Control (MD or SB). You absolutely MUST have a way to neutralize Hulk's Togs long enough to drop their life total.

Ok, now this is going to seem REAL jank, but have you guys considered using Wonder at all in the MD or the SB to circumvent Hulk's Togs? With 3 Togs of your own and 4 Thirsts, i've pondered trying it out. Mmm, Extended Jank tank

In GAT, don't side in matrix against hulk. It hurts your own change of comboing out tog. If a tog player is smart, he would NOT counter matrix. Matrix, at a point, would fall prey to the inevitability of tog deck. Don't give your opponent a weapon to slow you down.

Wonder falls into the whole inevitability issue again. If they've a tog on board, either your opponent suck, he's being desperate, or you are going to die next turn. You don't need the wonder to push for the win. Draw more cards.

[DavidHernandez]

Ed:
My point re: Fastbond is that Ultima is seeing success with it because of how he plays it.  I NEVER go after the Fastbond, so it's always dead for me unless I draw it on turn 1.  What I'm suggesting is that I need to try it his way (seeking it aggressively) to see if i think it deserves a slot.  Right now, I dont like Fastbond, and I replaced it with a basic Island.

As for Damping Matrix, it ROCKS.  It transforms the main deck into a Dryad Hate build, and can successfully take the opponent by surprise.  In the Hulk matchup, it wins.  In the Slavery matchup, it wins games.  And, no matter what area you are playing in, stopping those 2 decks alone can win you a tournament.  You put the Damping Matrix's in, and take your Togs OUT.

Oh, I remember the guy playing GAT.  I beat him with Stax and everyone was happy about it.  He had Mystic Ramora in the SB too.

@BreathWeapon:
Regarding "Wonder": Yeah, I thought about it.  Flying 10/10 Dryads are cool, but it's unnecessary and takes up slots that are already so important that I can't make room for Stifle's (which I REALLY want in the deck in multiples).

Dave.

[BreathWeapon]

I always see the Tog dropped early to fend off my Dryad from getting large and rolling on over. Am I just playing too passively with my Dryads by not *pumping up* and swinging into the Tog anyway? I've always instinctively gone to look for an answer to the Tog on the board, how do you guys get around him?

I could use all of the GAT vs HULK advice I can get, because I just tend to lose more often than not. So much in fact I switched to Miracle Grow *shrug*

[Phyr[NA]]

You could always attack into the tog, and when your opponent has pumped his Tog enough to kill your Dryad, you put the damage on the stack and play another spell, thus saving your dryad and getting rid of alot of your opponents cards.

This trick only works once, though, or maybe not at all, if you're playing a smart opponent.

[Jacob Orlove]

You could always attack into the tog, and when your opponent has pumped his Tog enough to kill your Dryad, you put the damage on the stack and play another spell, thus saving your dryad and getting rid of alot of your opponents cards.

This trick only works once, though, or maybe not at all, if you're playing a smart opponent.

A smart tog player will put damage on the stack, and then pump tog big enough to survive.

[Ultima]

The way to beat Tog is aggressive play style.  That is to say, play your threats aggressively and then draw spells to compound pressure.  I'm not saying walk into a mana drain with not back-up or anything like that but play intelligantly while you beat down.  You have to devote your hand to the early game because in the long run Hulk will just win, so you gotta put em away early.  Try to play a threat within turn 1-2 then another soon after to add more pressure, drayds are key here.

More often than not, this style beats hulk almost every time.