[Deck Discussion] Void of Mephistopheles

[HuntedWumpus]

Note to Mods and Important Folks
-Rather than give new life to the nine page, 127 post discussion on Void I started earlier; I felt it would be easier for us all If I just started a new thread. The deck has been heavily changed and I has a new twist. PM me or do something if you rather I continue the monster thread.

Well having played Void very heavily for the last few months with decent success; I decided the deck needed a facelift. Nothing huge, but something more than changing with the times and tides of MTG.  I tried to take the best that PerniciousVoid had to offer, and give it a more terrifying onslaught of hate.  

Void of Mephistopheles

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Llanowar wastes
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Choke
3 Naturalize
2 Planar Void
2 Contagion
2 Null Rod

**Updated The List**

Basically the deck functions similarly to most Void decks including the one I had played previously. I wont go over all the card choices because many are obvious and don�t need to be explained again. There are several key factors that lead to my choices.

Change one, up the creature count. The standard fair of Wretch, Hippie, Shade worked well, but could make deeding very troublesome when its 6 turn later and I�m still lacking a treat. Solution, 2x Mishra�s Factory. I trimmed a swamp and Dustbowl for this. I�ll address the loss of dustbowl later. This brings the total creature count to 12, and gives man-lands a revitalized presence in the deck. I also choose factory because I could cut two land for these and hopefully reduce late game dead draws.

Change two, Bring in the chains to Main-deck status. I looked at most competitive meta�s including my local; most match�s chains would be brought in game two and  with main-deck presence allows for turn one ritual, duress, chains. If resolved, that can be very lethal. For these I trimmed two sinkholes, basically because currently sinkhole is the weakest card in the deck. The creation of friggen fetchland hosed sinkholes effectiveness. Now the best case sinkholes are basically stalling one turn. With seven Land destruction effects, this build should still effectively takeout bazaar, Workshop, LoA, and the other important lands to kill, without drawing into ugly sinkholes when they aren�t needed.

Lastly the sideboard was updated. I was playing without null rod for a while, but too much slavery, it must be included. One of the ways I was able to go without the rods was my second effective way of dealing welder, contagion. Its still staying in the board to serve that purpose, as well as being very effective elsewhere. The rest is standard fair.

Discussions, thoughts, critique.[/b]

[Shadow Ninja]

Having just looked at the decklist, my first inclination is that some of the choices seem strangely unfocused.  Things like 2x Factory and 2x Sinkhole, and even 3x Hypnotic Specter seem like they should be changed.  If Sinkhole is indeed the weakest card in the deck, and is weak enough to cut to two, then it's probably weak enough as a two-of to cut down to 0.  Then you could bump the Factories to four, or make Hippie a 4-of and Factory a 3-of or something.  Chances are you'd bump Factory to 4, just because it isn't affected by Void.

I'd also consider not running Mox Jet.  This deck, like Landstill, seems like it would blow up its Moxes more often than not.  Later on, if you've dropped a Void, it's a crazily expensive land drop.  In short, it seems like most of the time it functions as a bad land in this deck.

Is there any way to bump the Mire count to 4?  It seems like you're going to want to find green early and reliably so you can drop a Deed as soon as it is necessary, so running 8 cards (I'd cut the Llanowar Wastes myself) plus the Lotus that produce or find green mana seems safe.

Does 2 Chains maindeck really do enough for you?  I mean, can you get to it early enough that it makes a significant impact on the game?  Also, won't you end up Deeding the Chains away when your opponent drops something threatening?  Seems to me that Chains and Deed are counter-intuitive, but I haven't tested it extensively, so you'll have to tell me how that goes for you.

[Wizbane]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the previous monster thread.


It's a nice decklist, but my first impression is that if you get rid of the Voids, you're basically left with a Bg Suicide.

For any Void.dec, I'd go further with the mana denial theme, dropping the 4 Hymn to Tourach and the Specters (but still including duresses and twist of course) and exploring new permanent-hate cards.

Also Skeletal Scrying and Chains doesn't fit well together.

My two cents.

W.  

[Discozombie]

If you are going to splash the green, why not try rootmaze, it seems like it would really have the potential to screw lots of decks.  Rootmaze in monogreen builds is just insane against decks that make heavy use of fetch lands, which is a lot.  

for those not familiar

G

Enchantment

All artifacts and lands come into play tapped.

this means the fetch land comes into play tapped, then it untaps, sacs, grabs a land which comes into play tapped...  great loss of tempo

[HuntedWumpus]

@ all: The reason I didn't post this in the Suicide fourm(it was moved), is that Void is not played in the Same style suicide is. The deck is not about mana denial, as was mentioned. Taking out key lands is very important, hence i feel good about 7 LD effects.

@ Wizbane: First off. Cutting void leaves you with a crummy version f sui. THe single largest mistake about void is its connection to Sui. The decks are not different builds of the same arctype. Void is played in a more control stlye, an example being agaist many decks it wont play a creature until perhaps third turn. Cutting out hymn to tourach and hippie it in total contradiction to this theme. Secondly Hymn is good against nearly everything.  

@ Shadow Ninja: I dont fell that i can loose the rest of the sinkholes . . .

(to all) THIS IS NOT SUICIDE, ITS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORLD . . .

 . . . I need to be able to easily take out the workshops, LoA, and stuffs. I dont want any more creature really so I dont fell that more factories is the right choice. I cannot cut any more black sources, so if i loose the mox, i must up the Swamp count. That dosen't seem like a productive trade off to me. No I cannot bump the mire count any higher at this point, too much thinning the deck, I dont have enough lands to thin out.

@ Discozombie: Root maze finds a home in many Void builds. Its a good choice and one I continue to look at. I am always a bit leery of playing this deck under it. Im not sure ill come out on top.

@ All: The interaction betweenne chains and scrying, and chains and deed will be explaned now.

I realize that scrying is not good under chains, but the scrying more often then not is played very early for 2ish and usually will find the chains. I realize however that somtimes there will be issues there, but even then, im my hand quality is poor i could still potentailly get a better hand with scrying.

Chains and deed. More often then not, the decks where chains is effetive are some of deed least effective match's. Generally the deed will go off for 0-1 against these builds to eat mana artifacts, and decree tokens. This has not been a heavy issue in testing.

**Note to Mod, Admin, VA, who moved me. Isn't it TMD policy to leave a name in red or a quick sentece. I see how this move is logical, however i dont agree, and i think the potential for this posts quality will go down as a result. I would appreciate a move back to the Open fourm, but whatever.

[HuntedWumpus]

Bah, I played like 15 games this morning and test drew about a dozen more. Mishra's factory can burn in hell. Call me a Hippie, send me to hell, whatever. Like i said before when i wasnet running them, they toy with the mana base to much.

Changed my Mind, 4 Deeds is Evil

-2 factory
+1 Swamp
+1 Deed

[twn_domn]

uh.., Nether Void and Chains serve the same purpose, to beat control deck.  Isn't that a bit redundant?  

I agree Nether Void type deck is not the same as suicide.  But.., Chains is such conditional card and it only works in some match-up.  MD means you are putting a potential dead card in ur deck.

[HuntedWumpus]

chains is dead only against a slim amount of decks, generally decks i can beat anyway. I'll sac two slots where i can easily board in card to the threat of MD chains in so many match's. Chains wins games and in combo nation with my intense hand hate, can be difficult to come back from.

[Wizbane]

Eh, I hope the thread wasn't moved due to my comment.
(altough probably this is the best thing that could happen to you...the way these forums are moderated still doesn't convince me, but I should judge in the long term only).

I think you can get useful infos in this forum as well.

I understood your point about playstyle. I also think that a single card is enough to change a deck.

Yet, all the cards listed besides the two voids are suicide cards (and you also aren't left with an optimal suicide build).
Void must differentiate itself from suicide, otherwise it will be superseded by suicide itself. Just try the matchup. Your 3 voids and your playstyle won't make the difference, imho.

Altough it's undisputable that suicide and void are blending. The real question is if Nether Void is still a playable card, and therefore if it fits in.

W.  

[twn_domn]

Why would people MD Both Chains And Nether Void?  That's like super-hate against blue-control/combo deck.  I don't think you'll draw God-hand and get 4 mana for the Void everything time.  Since opponent run moxes and you are struggling for mana, you might want to consider null rod.  Artifact hate is the real necessary evil here.  Chains and scrying are horrible syngery to begin w/ anyway.

[HuntedWumpus]

Well this build has been heavily played for the last few days... WOW. Its doing really well as far as the quality of draws goes. MD chains is Amazing, it intantly turns Braibstorm into crap, and brainstorm is featured in so many places. Then do decks with AK and library it just gets woorse. Im keeping that.

The only issue is the possibility for 1 more creature. Im thinking one mishra's factory maybe, or possibly a hippie. They are both good, both usually last deed, but factory cuts a swamp. Which in itself has pro's and con.

[xzero]

Mishra's Factory just has too much synergy with Nether Void to not play.  He should be at LEAST a 2 of, if not 3-4 of.

[HuntedWumpus]

from the outside it would appear its a must. However the big players of this deck are all currently running none. Unless Tracerbullet added them back in. Its a great card, but toys with the rock hard mana base. Ive brought them in and out too many times to count. Im very happy w/out them right now.

[HuntedWumpus]

Void of Mephistopheles

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Llanowar wastes
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Choke
3 Naturalize
2 Planar Void
2 Contagion
2 Null Rod

Here is the latest and greatest build. I am very pleased with the functionality of the deck at this point.

Sol ring was cut because it just doesn't work all that well in the deck. Without a ritual, the turn one with sol ring is total crap. If i have the ritual then there is no need for the sol ring. Perhaps Mana Crypt is a better choice here, but for now neither will be included.

The MD inclusion of Chains of Meph has proved to be one of the most lethal choices of all time. Hats off to Eastman for the inspiration. Chains is able to hose so many game plans and is such a surprise because many aren't expecting to see it game one. Such a huge edge there.

Im pro mainboard hosing cards such as that. If i can squeeze them in perhaps the Null rods will find a home in the Md. With the inclusion of them, it would be viable to take out a deed. Most often the deed is used to take out stuff like that.

Thoughts on anything I have said.  

Will Someone please move me back to the Open T1, and maybe put a little disclaimer to leave the post where it is?

[Zherbus]

Leave this topic as is, by order of me.

[Pern]

If i have the ritual then there is no need for the sol ring. Perhaps Mana Crypt is a better choice here

You don't want to go there.
Crypt doesn't play nice with Necro and Scrying,
especially in a deck that's not going to combo out on turn 2.

The interaction of Root Maze and Sinkhole might be worth exploring.
You can nail a fetch if it comes in tapped.

What does your sideboarding strategy look like?

[Wizbane]

Hi HuntedWumpus, I read your last decklist and I'm finding it improved, I'm happy to see it's giving better results.

Now, imho (as I've already pointed out, given my personal view of Void.dec) you should do the last big step away from suicide...at least in playtesting if you have the possibility.

Drop the 4 Hymn to Tourach,  add 2 Sinkhole and 2 maindeck Naturalize.
Permanent hate is my translation for Void. I'd also drop 1 Deed for Vampiric Tutor.
Mana base and sideboard would then be fixed according to these changes.
Note that these are suggestions on the fly, not even a bit of playtesting. Dropping hymns can be too much, perhaps.

Anyway, I'll see if I can put a personal Void list together eventually.

BTW, Zherb thanks for clearing the thread.
W.  

Void of Mephistopheles with suggested modifications

15 lands
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Dark Ritual

4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
2 Naturalize
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
 
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Choke
3 Naturalize
2 Planar Void
2 Contagion
2 Null Rod

[HuntedWumpus]

First Off thanks to Zherbus for hooking me up with a move. Thx

@ Pern: I really don't know what I was thinking when I stated Mana Crypt as an option. I guess Im hungering for an overly explosive turn one, that I really shouldn't be doing here. There's not enough colorless source's anyhow.

@ Wizbane:

Drop the 4 Hymn to Tourach, add 2 Sinkhole and 2 maindeck Naturalize.

 :shock:

Thats like having communism without featuring the color red. Hymn is one of the most staple of Void cards. I would much rather have an opponents hand under control than keep one extra land of the table. As i have stated and validated before sinkhole is the weakest card in the deck, but is needed enough to run two. Also your build featuring 3 deeds and 4 sinkholes with the naturalizes is very illogical. Deed is much better at controlling many artifacts.

99% of people would agree that 4 Hymn is standard fair and must be included.

I have started a primer on this deck and posted the first 1/2 of it here . It was intended for budget players looking to make a jump to powered play. Take a look and tell me what you think. Go ahead and post responses there.