When Comic Book Characters Duel! Who Wins??

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Who do you think would win in a fight? Ignore any occurences that happened in storylines already in existence.

Punisher vs Blade

Iceman vs The Human Torch

Mr. Sinister Vs Docter Doom

Galactis vs Apocolypse

The Hulk vs Thing vs Collassus

Hawkeye Vs Bullseye

[Dr. Sylvan]

Punisher vs Blade

No basis for judgment.

Iceman vs The Human Torch

Iceman, because he's cooler.

Mr. Sinister Vs Docter Doom

Dr. Doom would win thanks to his superior formal education, obviously.

Galactis vs Apocolypse

All hypothetical questions involving Superman, Apocalypse, or Unicron shall be taken outside and shot.

The Hulk vs Thing vs Collassus

Okay, three-way questions are dumb, but let's look at this as skin vs. rock vs. metal. Metal pwnz.

Hawkeye Vs Bullseye

No basis for judgment.

[Azhrei]

Punisher vs Blade

The Punisher, because guns are generally better than knives.

Iceman vs The Human Torch

Fire will melt ice, but ice doesn't necessarily put out fire.

Mr. Sinister Vs Docter Doom

Mr. Sinister, because Doom, while awesome, is basically Evil Iron Man. Mr. Sinister has powers and stuff that don't stop working if he gets wet.

Galactis vs Apocolypse

GALACTUS. EATS. WHOLE. PLANETS.

The Hulk vs Thing vs Collassus

Hulk is infinitely strong. Thing is very strong and a wiseass. Collossus is strong but has an artist's soul. Hulk would RUIN THEIR SHIT.

Hawkeye Vs Bullseye

Lobo guts them both for being lame assed geekwads.

[Magi]

There was an actual comics series about this if I'm not mistaken...a cross between D.C. and Marvel comics.

Such bouts featured:

- Wolverine VS Lobo (Wolverine)

- Wonder Woman VS Storm (Storm)

- Superman VS Hulk (Superman)

- Superboy VS Spiderman (Spiderman)

- Captain America VS Batman (?)

- Quicksilver VS Flash Gordon (?)

- Thanatos Vs Darksyde <--- there's your heavyweight bout (?)



that's all I can remember. Afterwards they made some comics featuring hybrids of all the heroes. The series was called Amalgam.

[Triple_S]

Thantos would clearly win that...he courted Death, killed something like 50% of all life in the universe at once.  No contest there.

[Azhrei]

Wolverine verus Lobo was the biggest crock of shit ever. Wolverine winning was so utterly far-fetched (these were all fan-voted, mind you) that the writers and arists didn't even show the fight. They just fall behind a bar and then Wolverine stands up.

This is because no one could ever depict a scenario where Lobo would lose and have it be remotely believable, even using comic reality.

Allow me to explain:

Wolverine: heals fast, has martial arts training, unbreakable skeleton, claws.

Lobo: so strong that Supeman said of Doomsday (the monster who killed him and was genetically bred into being the ultimate engine of destruction) "He hits even harder than Lobo!" Lobo is resilient to damage, up to and including nuclear weapons detonated on his position when he's in the can. Lobo is immune to dying, having done it once and been banned from Heaven and Hell after causing too much trouble. He can heal himself with a staple gun. He killed Santa. He can have sex with hundreds of women in one day. Lobo has relatively super speed (as he must, to be able to fight Superman and pose a challenge).

The powers here that have relevance are basically the adamantium skeleton and Lobo's strength and relative invulnerability/inability to die. Lobo does lose his range of bone-breaking attacks, but aside from that Wolverine is pretty much just a guy with knives. His healing factor won't account for much because it won't actually stop him from dying as he's torn limb from limb since his tendons are just flesh.

Lobo versus Wolverine is about as balanced a fight as Jubilee versus Green Lantern. When one person has demi-godlike powers and the other person is one step above being normal, it's not a contest. Hey, let's have Superman versus Cyclops in a battle of the eye-beams! ... and pray that Superman decides not to use his 40 other powers and forgets he's invulnerable at the same time.

To put this in perspective, imagine that you're fighting Andre the Giant in his prime. You have a knife, but you're chained to the ground so running isn't an option. Andre happens to have immunity to knives. At this point, unless you are also 7 feet tall (and you're not) and weigh over 400 pounds (more likely), you can pretty much do nothing except hope that he's not feeling playful.

Another good analogy would be trying to charge a machine gun nest over an open field with no cover and while wearing a suit made of neon pink vinyl. Except that even if the gunner falls asleep and you get to him, you can't even hurt him so he just wakes up and shoots you 500 times.

I'd give the nod to Thanos only because he's a nihilist and is willing to fall to depths of depravity that even Darkseid might not consider. Without the Infinity Gauntlet though, he is obviously significantly weaker.

[Dr. Sylvan]

My cursory searching has failed to produce a picture of Lobo (Google results include about five bajillion snow dogs, wtf). I'm presuming that Azhrei, apparently TMD's god of this category of useless information, has a picture he could link to / post to enlighten the underinformed among us to what Lobo looks like.

Re: Galactus vs. Apocalypse

Why does Galactus eating planets mean he beats Apocalypse? Isn't that dude possessed of approximately godlike powers, particularly relating to time?

[Azhrei]

Apocalypse is still basically a human, though a very powerful one. Galactus is an all powerful devourer of worlds.

From  http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/galactus/profile.html , edited for important bits (the history is also a good read):

Profile of Galactus

Real Name: Galactus (the being he once was, known as Galan)
Current occupation: Devourer of Worlds, Third Force of the Universe
Known Relatives: Eternity (father/brother/son), Death (mother/sister/daughter/wife)

POWERS AND ABILITIES:

Intelligence: Immeasurable
Strength: Immeasurable (variable)
Flight speed: Warp Speed
Endurance: Godlike (variable)
Durability: Totally Indestructible (variable)
Agility: Metahuman
Reflexes: Metahuman
Fighting skills: Galactus is not known to have ever participated in purely physical combat.
Special Skills and Abilities: Omniscient and all powerful world devourer.
Superhuman Physical Powers: Besides the above listed attributes, Galactus can tap, transform, and direct vast quantities of cosmic energy for whatever purpose he desires. Galactus can teleport within and between dimensions under personal power. Galactus has shown he can allow his “Hunger” to consume entire mutliverses, plus he has all the abilities of his heralds, to a greater degree, and then some.
Superhuman Mental Powers: Galactus has demonstrated psionic abilities, the limits of which are unknown.
Special Limitations: He must devour entire worlds to survive.
Source of Superhuman Powers: Galactus simply is, his nature is beyond the comprehension of mortal ken.

PARAPHERNALIA:

Personal Weaponry: Ultimate, Unlimited Cosmic Power.
Special Weaponry: Worldship can destroy and siphon planetary energies, within it is the Ultimate Nullifier, a device capable of destroying the universe entire, which Galactus safeguards.

Then, from http://24.188.68.181:8000/apocalypse.html :

Real Name: En Sabah Nur
Status: Deceased Cable
Powers & History: A highly-developed form of shape-shifting, some sort of teleportation, levitation and energy blasts. Following his merging with Cyclops's, Apocalypse also possessed limited control over time and space, as well as optic blasts.

So, Apocalypse is currently dead in the comics, having been killed by Cable. Galactus has been defeated a total of twice: once, by Thanos who was in possession of the Infinity Gauntlet, and by the Fantastic Four, who didn't really defeat him so much as use the Ultimate Nullifier to force him to choose between leaving Earth alone or having all of existence undone. Apocalypse is a very powerful mortal, but Galactus is a god with limitless power who could drain all life energy from Earth from deep space before we even knew it was happening. Apocalypse is to Galactus as Robin is to Darkseid.

Finally, regarding Lobo:



And also:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5178/Lobo-FAFQ.html

[Triple_S]

Not something to brag about....

He can have sex with hundreds of women in one day. Lobo has relatively super speed

[Azhrei]

Lol, those are seperate powers!  

I'm specifically citing the Lobo: Blazing Chain of Love comic where he had to infiltrate a harem of 10,000+ women who were all man-crazed. He satisfied hundreds of them on his journey before he was forced to start taking down the sex hungry vixens with tranquilizer darts since even mighty Lobo can't handle 9,000 women at once. 8,996, 97 maybe, but not 9000.

[Matt]

Mr. Sinister Vs Docter Doom

Mr. Sinister, because Doom, while awesome, is basically Evil Iron Man. Mr. Sinister has powers and stuff that don't stop working if he gets wet.

I'm no expert, but didn't Doom do a lot of occult stuff?

[Azhrei]

Mr. Sinister Vs Docter Doom

Mr. Sinister, because Doom, while awesome, is basically Evil Iron Man. Mr. Sinister has powers and stuff that don't stop working if he gets wet.

I'm no expert, but didn't Doom do a lot of occult stuff?

Yeah, he did. Sinister would probably get his ass kicked, but he has an unnaturally long life and is basically immune to damage since he can control every molecule in his body. He's also a genius level geneticist, so he's not likely to get outsmarted.

The problem with Dr. Doom here is that as badass as he is, Sinister is just basically unkillable, so no matter how much of a pounding Doom delivered, Sinister would eventually get in a lucky shot. I could be wrong though, since I never followed the Fantastic Four very much, so Doom's full range of abilities is out of my realm of knowledge. Most Marvel stuff I followed was the cosmic beings and the X-Men; D.C. I know a lot better.

[Joel Rojo]

Well, sad to reckon, Marvel is actually my field, anyway.

Punisher vs Blade: No contest really, Punisher is so fucking good at aiming that he actually intentionally destroyed spidey's web shooters when spidey was trying to evade him, and Punisher is so 3v1l 133t that he didnt even care about killing the fucking spider. Aiming and destroying anything on SpiderMan with mere guns takes balls, way more balls than what Blade will ever have. Besides, recently people has learned that most pseudo-vampires are gay goths, so there, awesome dude with guns, vs sissy goth.

IceMan vs Human Torch: IceMan can do really wacked things with his powers and shit, but he hasnt rised to the best of his skills in the standar continuity, so Human Torch should probably whip his ass good.

Mr. Sinister vs Doctor Doom: Well, Sinister is, actually, mad sinister and shit, but Doom is arguably one of the 2 or 3 smartest men on earth, and has a vast array of not only technological warfare, from laser shit to nuclear weapons, but he also is like, the best magician after Dr. Strange, so Id say Doom would own, really. Doom losing agaisnt the FF is biased shit.

Galactus vs Apocalypse: This is like, Zherbus vs Kerzkid, really, no fucking contest, less of a fight than any other presented before, Galactus would eat a couple of multiverses before Apocalypse found out what the hell was happening, of course, he would be less than a corpse, by then.

The Hulk vs Pansies: The Hulk, the more pissed off he gets, the stronger he gets, so, they get in a couple of hits, Hulk gets pissed and RAAAAAR HULK SMASH, bang, fight's over, and probably a couple of small countries aswell.

Hawkeye vs Bullseye: Though, didnt Bullseye get something of adamantium lately? anyway, this would be the only battle out of it, and it would probably be decided by trickstery and the enviroment than other thing, and, well, they both are pretty good tricksters and shit, so I dont know really.

On other news, Batman and Cappy tied or something, I remember them fighting, carrying their fight to the sewers, then out of them, and they saying something about that they could fight for weeks and no one would win, if one did, it wasnt because of mere fight, really.

Flash isnt Flash Gordon, Flash is imoveatlightspeedandkickass where Flash Gordon is a pansy cartoon from the 60s or something, Flash fought quicksilver, one moves at the speed of sound, the other, at the speed of light, go figure.

So there, I feel weird posting all of this, but it needed to be told ;D.

Oh, btw, Superman beating Hulk was horribly biased, it pissed me off, Hulk should have kicked Superman's ass totally, I mean, fucking superman beated him with some eye blast or something, that should have only pissed Hulk off and then he would have kicked Superman's ass. Damn, Superman sucks.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Lobo vs Wolverine is no contest...

Lobo would beat the snot out of wolverine like 1,000 times over.

Alright here are some new matches:

Apocolypse vs Darksyd

Ironman Vs Steel

Which shapeshifter is the most powerful over the rest?


X-Men Vs JLA

Xternals Vs JLA

Archangel Vs Hawkgirl (Is that her name?)

[Azhrei]

Apocolypse vs Darksyd

Spelling wins this bout. Darkseid is a god, Apocalypse is a very powerful mortal. One shot of the Omega beams and it's done.

Ironman Vs Steel

Is Steel wearing the Aegis suit, or the earlier incarnation of his armor? If the Aegis is being worn (fashioned by Darkseid to defeat an entropy level threat to the universe), then Steel. Otherwise, Iron Man.

Which shapeshifter is the most powerful over the rest?

Galactus. See above; he technically changes shape and appearance at will. After him, my vote goes to Apocalypse.

X-Men Vs JLA

Superman ALONE beats all of the X-Men except maybe Jean Grey and Professor X. If the Martian Manhunter can shield Superman from telepathic attacks (and Superman has fought off Brainiac's telepathy before, and also has access to STAR labs and Kryptonian technologies that allow him to protect his mind as well in addition to becoming increasingly immune to psionic attacks as a result of practicing a form of meditation) for long enough for the Man of Tomorrow to kick the ass of an old man in a wheelchair, it's an utter no contest without even including Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Batman... granted, if you mean the JLA when Booster Gold and Blue Beetle were the leaders, that's tough, but they STILL had Superman then.

Unless you start including nearly god level opponents like Darkseid, Thanos, Hulk, Brainiac, Cyborg, Captain Marvel, or Thor, anything with Superman almost automatically goes to Superman's team. Superman loses outright to actual divine beings like Galactus, the Spectre, Living Tribunal, and the Celestials, but anything short of that can't be worse than 50-50.

Compare Superman to any five X-Men, and the odds are that he does at least three of their (only!) powers much better than they do. I'll give a quick example of some of the X-Men:

Superman vs. Wolverine, Gambit, Storm, Archangel, Rogue.

Wolverine's skeleton can't be broken, and his claws are really sharp. Too bad he's not strong enough to apply the necessary force to cut Superman, who can also fly faster than the speed of sound. Oh, and heat vision melts everything BUT the skeleton in about 5 seconds.

Gambit charges up a card, and then says something French right before Superman realizes that Gambit's not invulnerable and hurls him into deep space.

Storm fires a bolt of lightning at someone who actually grows stronger when standing in the middle of the Sun. Superman uses her intestines to prevent forest fires.

Archangel can fly, very, very slowly by comparison. That's all he's got, because razor wings are about as good as fluffy pillows in this situation.

Rogue is strong and can fly. She lacks superspeed, however, so all her powers might as well be on vacation, even her absorption ability. Superman, known for his mercy, has robot clones DP her into oblivion so she can die stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey.

Archangel Vs Hawkgirl (Is that her name?

I think you mean Hawkman, unlike the JLA cartoon which has a woman in that character slot to be more equitable. Archangel the badass killer would win, but Archangel the crying pussy would lose.

[Matt]

See, that's why Superman blows. He's just no fun - it's like playing type zero - to beat it you have to go absolutely insane and play with like 25 Lotus, 34 Timetwister, 1 Underworld Dreams (Galactus).

How about "X-Men" vs "JLA-minus-Superman"?

Superman versus...someone from Marvel of similar strength? Thor maybe?

[Azhrei]

The thing is that Superman deals with villains on his own level, for the most part: Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid, Cyborg, Zod, Doomsday, Mr. Mxylptlyk (sp?), even Lex Luthor is comparable in power as the world's richest man and currently the President of the United States.

One of the most compelling aspects to the Superman storyline is the continuing theme that because he is so overwhelmingly powerful, his failures seem even worse. Think about it: Batman sees the news in the morning and there was an earthquake. Damn. Too bad. Superman sees the same report and has to consider the fact that if he hadn't been having sex with Lois, he could have saved thousands of lives instead. He can *almost* do everything, but not quite.

An amazing storyline that highlights this was when Cat Grant's son Adam was kidnapped by Toyman, who doesn't even have any real powers. Superman was off saving the world from something, and was too busy to find Adam... and Toyman ends up killing this 8 year old kid because Superman didn't have time to look for him.

The guilt from this stays with him, even years later, and comes up again during the Dominus story arc, when Dominus uses psychic mind control to make Superman believe he needs to set aside his humanity and act as protector at all times-- he pretty much takes over the whole world and turns it into a facist state in a couple weeks, even with a lot of the superheroes trying to stop him (they eventually gang up on him and BARELY contain him).

JLA (good version) would beat the X-Men. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) has enough juice in the power ring to ruin any mutant, and with Martian Manhunter to combat Professor X, the mutants don't have a lot to fight back with. During the Zero Hour storyline, it was revealed that GL actually has enough power (with some help from a villain named... Extant, or something like that?) to advance the state of entropy in the universe and recreate it from a fresh Big Bang. "Eye beams" don't stack up.

Superman v. Thor-- I give the nod to Superman just because Thor reverts to human form after a minute without his hammer. Also, Thanos can kick Thor's ass even without the Gauntlet, Thanos and Darkseid are pretty evenly matched (both evil demigods), and Superman can match Darkseid pretty well, and even win if he pushes himself. Competition for Superman needs to be at the demigod level of power, so guys like Hulk, Thor, Thanos, and the like are good competition, and when you get into cosmic beings like Silver Surfer and higher the scale tips away from Superman, mostly because his powers are all physically based and not power cosmic.

[Zherbus]

Noone has worked the Dark Pheonix in to any of this

[Dr. Sylvan]

Azhrei makes me want to add another entire category of useless knowledge to the already vast expanses of my brain semi-wasted on fiction.

[Azhrei]

Dark Phoenix falls into the category of cosmic beings, and as such isn't really fair to include unless you compare versus other cosmic beings-- I'd also argue that Dark Phoenix isn't a part of the X-Men roster in the truest sense-- if we do that, we may as well include the Spectre in with the JLA and say the JLA beats everything because the Spectre is an angel of divine justice and therefore trumps anything, up to and including Galactus, Death, The Beyonder, and even Infinity Thanos (Eternity/Galactus/Death is the high end of the Marvel cosmos, whereas the DC universe has a more traditional Godhead in the lead [who by definition cannot be usurped or defeated, whereas Marvel has a lot more stories that deal with cosmic beings]). Cosmic beings tend to not be great to bring into these kinds of debates just because they tend to have transcendent powers beyond general comprehension, or have limitless powers in highly specialized capacities (such as Lord Order and Master Chaos).

I knew a kid once who loved Batman so much that he insisted that Batman could beat ANYONE. He claimed that Batman would "somehow trick Galactus into not eating Earth" and "outsmart Thanos and steal the Gauntlet." It was the most amazing case of denial I've encountered.

Dr. Sylvan, until you have a vast knowledge of comic books you can never justly claim to be the king of nerds.

[Dr. Sylvan]

True. Fortunately, I don't have to retract anything; I'm still the "Nerdiest TMDer" even if I'm not the global Nerd King.

This sounds like exactly the kind of thing I should put on my summer To Do list. Ya know, besides getting a job, which is totally overrated. I mean, someday, somewhere, I might encounter another uber-nerd, and then what the hell would I do if didn't have the prerequisite vast knowledge of comic books? The consequences are too terrible to comprehend. I'm sure I'll be able to find some sites that summarize the entire storylines of the two comic universes, and then, I'll bump this thread, and explain to Darren how such-and-such will beat such-and-such. And then baby Smmenny will die a little inside.

[kl0wn]

I knew a kid once who loved Batman so much that he insisted that Batman could beat ANYONE. He claimed that Batman would "somehow trick Galactus into not eating Earth" and "outsmart Thanos and steal the Gauntlet." It was the most amazing case of denial I've encountered.

I once got into a debate with someone over whether Superman would beat Batman in a fight. I insisted that Batman would win, whilst he claimed the opposite. Just then, some Justice League show came on the Cartoon Network and Superman went all evil and stuff. Lo and behold, Batman busted out a secret stash of Kryptonite and proceded to own Superman like the cell block snitch.

Furthermore, Batman and Batman Returns were both directed by Tim Burton. No other comic-book-to-big-screen movie has been directed by Tim Burton. Therefore, Batman wins all the cookies.

[dicemanx]

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/

Opinions on Hulk vs Doomsday vs Juggernaut?

[Azhrei]

Clearly Doomsday wins. If you're at all familiar with his origin story and powers, there is just no way that Hulk or Juggernaut would win.

[Magi]

Okay all you guys got me interested in this shit

http://www.marveldirectory.com/

this site has lots of good profiles.


http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/index.htm

this site covers almost all the obscure characters that aren't covered in the marveldirectory


http://www.norse-man.net/Interactive/Interactive.asp

more database stuffs






While reading on this stuff...I have come to several conclusions:

- If all the uberpowers from Marvel fought all the uberpowers of DC, Marvel would win hands down. I wish I could find more on the DC universe though...

- Magneto is strong. So strong that I think he could take on Superman, and thus help balance the X-Men VS JLA grudge match.

- All those uber omniscient beings like Death, Living Tribunal etc. own anything and everything.



also, anyone have any links to any good D.C. databases?

[Magi]

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/

Opinions on Hulk vs Doomsday vs Juggernaut?

hehehe, I was just checking that site out last night. Lots of cool fights there.


Juggernaut would lose quite badly, leaving Doomsday and Hulk to fight it out. Hulk wins in the end.

[jpmeyer]

In Dark Knight Returns, Batman mad busts out the Kryptonite (and wears powered armor) so that he can mad bring Superman down to his level.

Oh yeah, and I always wanted to know this:

What happens if Juggernaut runs into Blob?

[Joel Rojo]

Well, step by step..

Iron Man should be able to defeat Steel, I do not know whats up with his Aegis armor or whatever since I actually have a strong dislike for DC, but Iron Man has so fucking many toys and shit that he should own steel for good.

On Supes vs Thor, I once read some Wizard's magazines article on the like of this stuff, and they mentioned that Thor would kick Supes's ass, it would take some effort, of course, but with Thor being the frigging god of thunder and the like, and some nerdish stuff they mentioned, it seemed pretty obvious that Thor would toast Supes's ass.

Also on Supes's and Thor vs Thanos and Darkseid, Supes deals with Darkseid and some other dudes because DC is so horribly fucking biased, and Superman being their fucking poster boy, they make him beat everyone's ass and such, while Marvel actually seems to enjoy having his heroes's asses kicked when they should manage to win, an easy example being when Magneto joined the X-Men (both magneto magneto or Joseph Magneto), Magneto should be able to whipe any enemy of the X-Men with a thought, like, dude, he splitted Apocalypse in 2 in the Age of Apocalypse, but, when Magneto joined the X-Men, he turned into FagLord Magneto, and just sissied around. Gay.

On the X-Men vs JLA, I think Darren brings good points, but Xavier is the most powerful mind in the universe, like, once he shouted and the WHOLE UNIVERSE FELT IT. He's mad broken, I dont know about Martian Manhunter (doesnt this sound like some bad pr0n movie?, assuming they do bad pr0n movies), but he would have to be TOO DAMN GOOD to defend anyone from Xavier, really. Then, there are like 3'000 X-Men, with waaaay too varied powers, I must be forgetting a lot of them, but among their numbers there should be some guys to make this a real fight, even if JLA has many of the most broken people ever. Maybe the avengers could pose a better challenge, seeing how every other hero in marvel is an "honorary member" or a "reserve".

Also, Angel has revealed some MAD powers, beyond the metal wings, he has psychic powers, gets into the astral plane, grows mad claws, and shoots some weird light darts from his wings, and has some weird light powers or something. This all happened in Apocalypse: The 12, or something like that. I dont think Supes can hold his ground in the Astral Plane, but I could be wrong.

And yeah, Dark Phoenix eats solar systems for lunch, she would own the whole JLA, thats why I didnt consider her into the fight. Mad broken.

And yeah, Batman kicks Supes's ass.

On Blob and Juggie. I guess they would beat each other until they collapse of pure boredom, being invulnerable or so, or Blob would get his guard down and Juggie would kick his ass all the way into the sun or something.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Also, do Cable and Bishop count as part of the X-Men for these purposes? AFAIK, they're "mad broken", too, though obviously not on the order of certain other, more immense characters.

[Azhrei]

In Dark Knight Returns, Batman mad busts out the Kryptonite (and wears powered armor) so that he can mad bring Superman down to his level.

Oh yeah, and I always wanted to know this:

What happens if Juggernaut runs into Blob?

Dark Knight Returns was such crap.  

Juggernaut keeps moving. His power is magic, and Blob's is mutation. Magic always trumps natural abilities, especially in this case because Juggernaut is unstoppable, whereas Blob is simply extremely difficult to move.