before everyone pops a million boners over crucible

[jpmeyer]

Remember:

1) this is a 3 card combo
2) it requires a restricted card
3) if you want to win through some method OTHER than decking, you also need a kill card
4) a Mindslaver can force you to combo yourself out with your own combo through fetchlands/Fastbond

[xrizzo]

I think it is clear that the combo is clunky at best...

There is enough artifact hate around to make it difficult to set up as well...

[Jacob Orlove]

Trying to combo off with Crucible is like running Time Vault in Stax.

[Tempe]

I surely hope everyone realized this about Crucible + Fastbond  + Zuran Orb. I don't anyone claimed that it was the next new combo revolution.

But, I think the point here is that Crucible is still quite powerful alone and with other cards. With wasteland/strip mine, it locks the land state down, so it can be good for aggro. Beyond that, it is a combo with either Fastbond _or_ Zuran Orb. It even combos with Fetchlands, allowing you to never miss a land drop.

Its still very good, and I think its just a perk that, if you happen to run it in your deck, you have more cards that add synergy by themselves, and turn into a combo when they come together.

--Tempe

[Swanky]

Trying to combo off with Crucible is like running Time Vault in Stax.

I can put counters on Time Vault using Power Conduit, right?  Tech!
(Edit:  Yes, this was written with jocular intent.)

Honestly, though; crucible won't have as much of an effect on the environment as people are currently prognosticating.  Even now, that anticipated effect is nominal, so that's saying a bit.

That having been said, it shouldn't take anyone by surprise if someone attempts the Crucible-Fastbond-Orb combo, or if someone plays Mono-Green Land Destruction with 4 Crucibles, 4 Living Wishes, and a Strip Mine in the 'board.

[Jacob Orlove]

I can put counters on Time Vault using Power Conduit, right?  Tech!

Yeah, you just can't remove those counters to take an extra turn.

Crucible is a solid card, especially in any deck with 4 fetches and 5 strips. Just don't try to build bad combos with it, and you'll be fine.

[Toad]

Trying to combo off with Crucible is like running Time Vault in Stax.

Hey, Psyduck did!

OK, sorry  

 :lol:

[BreathWeapon]

People actually took that whole Fastbond/zOrb crap seriously?

[dmessiah]

Well, I could see it getting included in monobrown stax type decks that run the 5 strips and have workshops to power this out on turn 1.  Your workshops don't get wasted (well, they do, but they come back), you can strip over and over, and hey, look, mox diamond just got better, too.  Whether this card will actually let prison decks back into the metagame is questionable, however.

Actually speaking of mox diamond, maybe Foil, Flameshot and Abolish just broke the "playable" threshold.  Foil seems like a good madness outlet, and the U/G is a version that runs fetches+strips already.

God knows, maybe mudhole, up there as one of the all-time worst cards ever to see print, might actually make it to mediocre status.

[Dr. Sylvan]

People actually took that whole Fastbond/zOrb crap seriously?

Have you ever known an infinite life combo that was bad enough for no one to take it seriously?

Crucible sounds ok, but in reality you could just play another mana to avoid missing land drops, and you could just do something bizarre like Petrified Field if you urgently want to recur Wasteland.

And yes, three-card combos are horrible. Play Draw7 if you wanna use your Fastbond.

[riggy]

And yes, three-card combos are horrible.

So you're saying Dragon and Slaver are both horrible?

Perhaps "three-card combos that don't do anything on their own are horrible"?

But then again, Dragon doesn't fall in that category either.

[Smmenen]

I'll go further: Crucible is not a good card for copmetitive type one.

Steve

[wuaffiliate]

whats "copmetative" is this some new slang?    

crusible is quite good as a 1-2 of in keeper, ive messed arround with it as a utility card and its worked quite well. but far from broken, reusing strips each turn is good times.

[yodoblec]

The question is will it restricted? Probably not, unless it has a huge impact on games, which i'm gonna doubt.[/list]

[Kerz]

lol, why would it be restricted- people are saying how FUCKING AWFUL it is on this thread

[Dr. Sylvan]

So you're saying Dragon and Slaver are both horrible?

Perhaps "three-card combos that don't do anything on their own are horrible"?

Dragon isn't actually a three-card combo. There's the obvious bit that one of the components you can play 8-12 copies of. Then, Bazaar isn't the only way to bury a WGD. So it's functionally a lot more like a two card combo.

Slavery is barely a combo deck. It's possible to combo off, but the primary functions are again more like a two-part combo of Welder + Mindslaver, with either card working on its own.

So I don't know where you're coming from; Crucible isn't the same thing at all.

[Hi-Val]

And for anyone trying to build a deck with it, Barbarian Ring is your kill card. Don't argue with me.

It remains to be seen whether there are other goodies in 5th Dawn or some oldies that time forgot that enable this to go crazy. Might be good using the Turbo engine, but I leave that to people with more time on their hands to figure out.

[The Hamburgler]

I think it obviously won't turn into an appealing "combo" piece, although may find it's own home in a stacker based deck. It has synergy with Smokestack, City of Traitors and the five "strip" effects the deck packs. I don't think it is necessary to insult it, plus, if it was going to be in any combo deck it would surely replace Land Grant from One-Land-Belcher and instead this conjunction would be formed:

Entomb for Bayou, then Crucible of Worlds it in     .

Of course I just contradicted myself, but who doesn't like dampening the spirits of a kid who just figured out his favorite card Zuran Orb is officially a combo in his mind, eh?  :lol:

[Shadow Ninja]

IF there is a home for Crucible, it'll be in U/R Stax or one of the other Prisonish decks.  And even then, it's doubtful it will be any better than the other 2 billion lock components the deck runs (or doesn't, considering you can't run every good lock component ever).  It's something I plan to test, and I plan on getting a playset of Crucibles (for the testing and the ART, MAN), but this is my initial feeling.

[Machinus]

Too bad turbo oath sucks, this is like future sight in that deck.

[FreddieNDB]

I didn't even look at it as a combo piece when I first saw it. I rember when I first started playing and when I saw card or even tried to build decks my mind would just try to create combos. I finally stopped doing that after awhile when I realized that effective combos are difficult to find.

When I first looked at this card, I saw its real potential in the recurring wastelands and fetchlands. I think this definately fits the role of a control deck. Of course the downside to the fetches is that you keep lossing life, but I think even fetching a couple extra times will give you the boost you need to give a slot to crucible. On another plus, crucible also ensures that you never miss a landrop assuming you're playing 5 strips and/or 4 fetchlands.

[Ruinn]

The only thing I can see using it for is in my casual U/g Stasis deck.  The zuran orb and fastbond were already in there, so creating infinite life is not so bad since I'm trying to deck you anyway.  But, other than that casual deck I really do not see it as a combo piece.  However, I will definately also test this out in any deck running five wastes and other mana denial elements, just to see if it has any potential.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

I'm not sure Crucible is as fair as you seem to think it is. I actually just threw together a deck that seems to regularly (as in 70+%) Wasteland-lock the opponent turn 2 going first, if he doesn't have FoW. (I only did like 15 goldfishes yet, so nothing definite. It still makes me think)

[Shadow Ninja]

Trying to utilize Crucible as an effective combo piece is the wrong way to implement it.  It's already been shown that any combos built around Crucible will undoubtedly suck, so why classify it as a bad combo piece...

...Especially when it could be classified as a good lock piece, which is what I see it as having the potential to be.  Like I said before, I plan on testing this in my build of U/R Trinistax, as Crucible has excellent synergy with the Strip effects, which in turn have good synergy with the whole concept of the lock.

[martyr]

This might be the card that gets wasteland restricted...and workshop, and bazaar...

it makes pretty much ALL lands a LOT better.

[Rico Suave]

My biggest problem is that Crucible requires land drops to be effective, and land-drops are awfully slow in T1.  

I think a direct comparison is Ophidian.  They're both 1cc, they both give one card a turn, but Crucible is limited to land cards.

[Marton]

In my opinion it indeed is a very bad card for combos. However, I would like to point out that having reusable shuffle effects (via fetchlands) could prove to be damn good with brainstorm. Perhaps, and I mean only *perhaps*, this could make sylvan library almost playable if you put 1 or 2 or each (sylvan+crucible). What remains to be proved is whether a 3cc card is viable in type 1, for an effect that requires previous card setup to be worthwhile. I would venture a guess and say it is worth playtesting 1x in a deck playing 4 brainstorm and either 5xstrips or 3+xfetch. I do believe that generally you have more powerfull card choice for such a casting cost, however I always liked the concept of playing more on the versatility/toolbox side than consistency/redundancy side, so in this way it could prove to be an interesting card.

Time will tell. In the mean time I'll probably try and acquire one.

[Shadow Ninja]

My biggest problem is that Crucible requires land drops to be effective, and land-drops are awfully slow in T1.  

I think a direct comparison is Ophidian.  They're both 1cc, they both give one card a turn, but Crucible is limited to land cards.

I think the real problem, even worse than the "one land drop a turn" thing (which isn't a problem if you use it to deny your opponent's mana, and thus board, development), is that Crucible is an artifact in a metagame that's learning to hate the crap out of artifacts.  There's the possibility that Crucible gets its ass kicked before it generates a definite card or board advantage.

[pox_reborn]

I could see Turbonevyn liking this card but that archetypes long dead.

[Purple Hat]

Not to suggest that the combo is good, but it also produces infinite mana.  you can recur the land, tap it, sac it to the zorb, then put it back into play, netting +1 life and +1 mana.  so it's not quite as bad as everyone is saying.

that said I agree with everyone saying that the only place they'd ever use crucible is something with workshops, strips, and fetches.