before everyone pops a million boners over crucible

[rvs]

I don't understand why everybody wants to cram Crucible in existing decks.

[Shadow Ninja]

I don't understand why everybody wants to cram Crucible in existing decks.

Because it fits the Prison theme of denying the opponent's expansion of the board whe used in conjuction of Wastes and Strips.  With Crucible and another lock piece, such as Tangle Wire or Smokestack, the strips become so much better than they were before, which is to say, frickin awesome.  Like I said before, I don't know if it will be as efective as the stuff already in Prison decks, but I plan on testing it as soon as I get myself a playset.

[Robert the Swordsman]

The card, while being a somewhat clunky three-casting-cost artifact, has many uses beyond that of combo.

This has been stated before, but let me reiterate. If you can find a Strip Mine while this is in play and you and your opponent each have three lands in play, you are effectively putting them two turns behind you with every turn you take by recurring that Strip Mine once per turn. As long as it sits in your graveyard, their lands will always be toast.

Not only this, but think about this: if you have some form of sacrificing outlet (i. e. Zuran Orb), you could, say, tap your Workshop for three colorless, sacrifice it to whatever, put it back into play and get three more out of it. The same goes for Tolarian Academy or Ancient Tomb or anything like that. In addition, you could do the same thing with a Bazaar of Baghdad, or even a Library of Alexandria.

I don't like or dislike the card particularly, but I do think that it may end up having some effect on Type 1.

[InsaneScrub]

It is awful!
This post is terrible. If you can't write more content than this, don't even bother posting.[/color]

[rvs]

It is awful!

Like your post!

@Shadowninja: what I meant was, that in this thread, there's a lot of responses that Crucible is bad in some decks and stuff. I'll admit I only skimmed it, so maybe I misread a few posts. However, I still think that Crucible probably needs a deck built around it, since it's more of an engine card than just a random tool. Keeper doesn't need it, and neither does Slaver. Since Slaver is superior to the other prison-strategies, I'd say it doesn't matter how well it fits in Mud or whatever.

[InsaneScrub]

In all honesty, the only reason I could see this card being utilized is if you were to abuse fetchlands, but still there is the issue of life, and ultimately at best it might be a sideboard card vs land destruction, unfortunately it cost 3!

[cssamerican]

Disclaimer: I am not saying this card is great because I have yet to test it.

I think MoreFling is right, if this card has any potential it will be in a deck specifically built around it. If I were to start playing around with it I would start with 3 Null Rods, 4 Living Wish, 4 Exploration, 4 Watelands, Fetchlands, and a sideboard consisting of Strip Mine and some fatties. The deck would focus on developing a large mana base quickly while shutting my opponents mana base down and then spitting out some huge fatty.

[Purple Hat]

Using the old turbo land engine with the exploration, horn of greed, crucible, fetchland deal going you might be able to get somewhere with this.  also by reusing your fetches you could pull most of the lands out of your deck making the draws even more valuable.  I'd like to see it tried at least.  it looks like it could be interesting for a big fat type deck.

but I think anything with 4-5 strip effects and a few fetches could really abuse this thing.  U/R stacker still looks to me like a place this card could really come into it's own as far as existing decks go.

[Wizbane]

Not T1 material? Awful?

I bet a lot of people here is just writing "following the general consensus of the thread", or even worse is just writing the opposite thing he's thinking.

My opinion is that this is a great card, a "revolutionary kind" of card that begs to be broken. I'm not saying it will be an easy task given the actual level of certain T1 decks. But I bet this will be T1 material!

Imho a deck that runs 4 wasteland and 1 strip is enough to warrant a 1 slot inclusion of Crucible if mana denial is an objective.

W.

[Matt]

Unlike everyone else in this thread, I've actually tested how this card works in a few decks. One funny thing you notice real quick is that with Crucible on the table, extra Wastelands become real deadweight, real fast. In a deck built with Crucible in mind (like a Crucible Keeper or something) I would probably run 1 Strip and only 2-3 Wastes, because once you find one, that's all you need.

Also, the Living Wish idea is horrible. First, Sylvan Scrying is better, because you can randomly draw the Strip Mine without HAVING to wish for it. Secondly, Cunning Wish -> Crop Rotation is also better, because it's an instant, and blue, and more useful when you don't have Crucible, and with SB Vamp or Enlightened Tutor cajn actually get the Crucible if that's the part of the combo you're missing, and is actually not slower because the Crop Rotation doesn't take a land drop.

Lastly, I have to ask: we all knew this card was coming, and for like six months now. Am I the only one who's been trying it? Why haven't you guys been testing this card for months and months now?

[cssamerican]

Matt I got to give you props for thinking of Sylvan Scrying...Hangs his head in shame for not thinking of it himself.

[Swanky]

The deck would focus on developing a large mana base quickly while shutting my opponents mana base down and then spitting out some huge fatty.

Yeah, Force of Will is my favorite card too.  

To reiterate: This card is not awful.  It will see play; it just requires a new type of deck- one that will require a few months of testing and streamlining before people give up and play Stax.

I kid because I love. :)

[Hi-Val]

I've been testing with it off and on in combo form. Start with the JP Classic (4 Brainstorm, 4 FoW) and throw in Dark Ritual, blue broken cards and 4 Crucible as well as Fastbond/Exploration and Horn of Greed, there's a good start.

It may not be the fastest combo, but here's the flipside: While it is waiting for the combo to appear, the deck is actively stripping away lands and setting the opponent back. It can take a proactive role while searching for what it needs. This is important.

[yodoblec]

It would be a very slow combo if you took to much time to strip things away without Fastbond. If you play like 5 fetches in combo then i could see this being used.

[martyr]

I think it stands more of a chance in artifact-based decks that can contain the combo and benefit from the pieces, like Tools and Tubbies and such. I'm not really up on current decks, but that was viable for a bit a while ago, couldn't this make it more so? Fastbond and Explorations would allow you a much better 2nd-3rd turn, and the crucibles would save Mishra's Workshops as well as strip away lands.

Zuran Orb might be necessary, and it might not. It all depends on whether you can win with infinite life/mana (I don't see why you couldn't...) or if you just win with creatures after crippling their mana base.

Maybe in some odd Affinity deck? They've started running Green for Naturalize in T2...that and Future Sight would make this absolutely ridiculous.

I don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas.

[The Hamburgler]

Lastly, I have to ask: we all knew this card was coming, and for like six months now. Am I the only one who's been trying it? Why haven't you guys been testing this card for months and months now?

I have been testing since it being a rumor, I wrote an article on the old TMD about it, and it's uses in MUD. I called it CoW Mud, CoW Patty etc (Crucible of Worlds, if you didn't catch that) It is amazing, because wMUD and MUD were based on permanent control and advantage, it made itself comfy with Wasteland and Strip Mine. City of Traitors became better than Ancient Tomb. Just my thoughts.
- The Hamburgler

[DrLambda]

Well, i'll try it out in TriniNT. First Turn Trinisphere, Second Turn Crucible is nearly a complete lock with Strip Mine. Ok, it won't happen all the time, but it will happen. Apart from that it also has synergy with the Fetches.

I'm not saying this is THE SOLUTION(TM), but it maybe something near that.

[winnie]

That's so funny to see a card so bad on the beginning of this thread, wich seems to be a good card now !

winnie

[Machinus]

For use in decks that aren't lame fastbond combo:

Crucible is too slow. You will get, maybe, two or three drops from this card. Even then, there are conditions that have to be met before you receive advantage from this card. 1) You have to pay three mana and spend one card to start. 2) You probably wont be able to use it until the turn after you cast it, which means your opponent has plenty of time to deal with it (or laugh at you). 3) You can't play the lands you draw, if you are trying to use crucible. 4) You have to have lands in the yard (strip/fetch).

Any mox you arent already running is better than this.

[Thug]

I think MoreFling is right, if this card has any potential it will be in a deck specifically built around it. If I were to start playing around with it I would start with 3 Null Rods, 4 Living Wish, 4 Exploration, 4 Watelands, Fetchlands, and a sideboard consisting of Strip Mine and some fatties. The deck would focus on developing a large mana base quickly while shutting my opponents mana base down and then spitting out some huge fatty

Hehe, morefling do you remember the land-deck me and arthur created a awhile ago, which Arthur also played in Antwerp, the deck is made for crucible, and I actually can't wait to give it a go in the deck.

When I get some more solid test results I might post a list here, but right now it's too early. A little hint, we played approx. 39 land  

Koen

[rvs]

Hehe, morefling do you remember the land-deck me and arthur created a awhile ago, which Arthur also played in Antwerp, the deck is made for crucible, and I actually can't wait to give it a go in the deck.

That deck was totally what I was hinting at in all my posts in this thread. I just didn't want to actually tell anyone what it was about, since it's basicly your deck, and well..... it's up to you to do so.

[MaxxMatt]

I think that anyone should look at a monobrown with Crucibileof the worlds in it.

It increase in a real painful way the strenght of the lock that Spheres and Smoke and Strips can produce, with the boost that it could go infinite...


I talk of monobrown because it is the only deck proposed untilnow that have ALL the lock components.. but other decks can be built around this concept and idea

[Rico Suave]

That's so funny to see a card so bad on the beginning of this thread, wich seems to be a good card now !

winnie

The only difference I saw was who posted.

it looks like it could be interesting for a big fat type deck.

Eh, Big Fat has a lot better things to do with it's slots.  Crucible is dead without Wastes/Strips, and even then it's too slow.

[Bob The Builder]

When I get some more solid test results I might post a list here, but right now it's too early.

I hope to see a deck list very soon, this discussion has been pure fiction and brainstorming about COW without really adding backbone to the combo's or engines built around COW.

So, whenever you get that testing done, I'll be happy to see a deck-list (I know I'll already like).

[Soupboy]

I've been looking for a way to resurrect TurboNevyn since the restriction of Gush, and when rumors of CoW hit, I spent many hours trying to use it.  And I got nowhere.  Nether the less, I will continue my quest to make use of my explorations again

The Soup

[Hi-Val]

This card has to be part of a combo, the potential is too good. I can sense its dark powers, I cannot harness them yet. Maybe it'll be something janky like TurboLich, but there's a combo there. I think people are discounting the strength of recurring this in combination with strips. It's pretty potent. It just needs to be harnessed.

And if there is a combo, I am totally calling the deck Powerglass, 'cause it sounds awesome.[/list]

[colebert]

I think this card might actually fit in the Fish or Landstill decks that already run 4-5 strip effects. Is there room in the deck or is it to tight to fit 2 or so in it. Obviously this would greatly strengthen the mana denial aspect of the decks, but would it take away from the tempo?

[KrauserKrauser]

In both Fish, Gay/R and Landstill this card would fit in really well.  I think it would run alot better in the fish variant/gay/r decks simply because it won't have that bad synergy with Disk that you see in Still.  On the other hand this thing does cost 3, something that the fish decks usually try to stay away from as not only does it make for a better drain target but it also would be competing with a standstill for play order.

I did some thinking on the card in my Gay/R deck but don't see much point in testing it till I can get the card in my grubby little fingers.

[Matt]

While I could sort of see this card giving Landstill something to do with its Drain mana, this is a total waste of time in Fish.

[Ruinn]

Landstill would not like this card all that much because of the disks it runs.  None of the fish variants use a global board sweeper the way landstill does, so I believe it would see more play in fish than landstill.  Even then, does it really help either of those deck more than the cards they already have in it?