[Deck]Second Sunrise

[bomholmm]

I've been working on a deck that abuses Second Sunrise.  I took It apart a while ago because I felt I was wasting my time.  It wasn't as good as draw 7 or dragon and didn't have room for protection.  I'm going to post a list from memory so that maybe someone can find that one card that pushes this deck to a point where it is good.


Deck

4 Crystal Vein
4 Archeological Dig
4 Gemstone Mine
Tolarian Academy
Mox Ruby
Mox Emerald
Mox jet
Mox saphire
Mox pearl
Mox diamond
Chrome Mox
Lotus petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
4 Elvish Spirit Guides
4 Tinder Wall


4 Chromatic Spheres
3 Implements of Sacrifice


Tinker
Memory Jar
Crop Rotation
Wheel of Fortune
Windfall
Time Twister
Ancestral Recall
Timewalk
4 Second Sunrise
1 Cunning Wish
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fastbond
1 Mind's Desire



sideboard

1 Brain Freeze
1 Oxidiize
1 Sitfle
1 Red elemental blast
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
other stuff



Basic idea:

   The deck uses Second Sunrise to recur powerful sacrifice effects that either generate mana or draw cards to power out more spells and eventually cast a big Brain Freeze.

Card choices:

   I tried to pick cards that sacrifice to themselves.  Cards like zuran orb and squandered resources can be very powerful with Second Sunrise but because they sacrafice something else they turn the deck into a three card combo deck and make it inherently slower.  the few cards I did keep that require the sacrifice of another card could simply not be ignored because of thier sheer power.

Crop Rotation-either sac a land and get academy or sac academy and get a land either way sunrise brings back more mana.

Crystal Vein and arch dig- both sac lands one gives any color mana one is a sol land recurring these with sunrise is awesome.

Tinder Wall-  one of the more questionable inclusions but they can be cast with spirit guide mana and they add tons of mana when they are recurred.

Chromatic Sphere-these are sooo awesome they filter mana to get that O so difficult WW and they generate card advantage when recurred with sunrise.

Implements of Sacrifice-really janky but it helps filter to get WW and generates mana after sunrise.

Tinker/Memory Jar-these two cards have amazing synergy with sunrise once you get an active jar you pretty much just win.

Chain of Vapor- lets you sac academy or other lands in order to bounce Moxes which generates mana both ways, plus deals with opponents stuff.

Cunning Wish/brainfreeze- i chose this win condition instead of burning wish and tendrils becuase its one colored mana less and the are instants so you can do all kinds of stack tricks between sunrises and jar hands.

led/Lotus petal/Lotus-pretty obvious just wanted to point out the awesome synergy these have with sunrise

the rest of the deck I think is pretty self explanatory.


Performance:

   I have found that the deck will out of say 5 games win first turn once win second turn twice then not be able to do anything useful twice.  It is very inconsistent but the engine is just so powerful that I know there is something to be done with it.

it doesn't run any protection and it rolls over to disruption

some options include ditching the Tinder Walls and 4 other cards to fit in brain storm and force of will, this helps with the consistency and adds protection but also slows the deck down to a third turn comb instead of a 2nd turn combo(at least thats what I experienced).


I hope that someone can run with this cause it is a lot of fun and I really see potential in Second Sunrise.

[TheAdvantage]

It is very inconsistent but the engine is just so powerful that I know there is something to be done with it.

...it doesn't run any protection and it rolls over to disruption...

...it is a lot of fun...

The only cards in T1 that share a color with Second Sunrise are Balance, Decree of Justice, and Swords to Plowshares.

Combo decks that are inconsistent and do not run disruption tend to be really bad...as in not worth anyone's time.  You said it yourself, this is worse than Dragon and Draw7.  Even if you could make it consistent, sans disruption, what benefits does it have over playing either of the mentioned decks?

Please dont ever again mention Implements of Sacrafice...I was embarassed that I had to look it up until I saw it was from Fallen Empires.  How is this card good at all...it actually costs you mana.

You'll have to excuse me, but doesnt "fun" normally equate to "really bad?"  Something like this will never make it through 5+ rounds of tournament play against top decks.

[bomholmm]

The only cards in T1 that share a color with Second Sunrise are Balance, Decree of Justice, and Swords to Plowshares.

yeah thanks I know white sucks. Major insight there why don't you tell me the sky is blue while you are at it.

Combo decks that are inconsistent and do not run disruption tend to be really bad...as in not worth anyone's time.  You said it yourself, this is worse than Dragon and Draw7.  Even if you could make it consistent, sans disruption, what benefits does it have over playing either of the mentioned decks?

Wow repeating me is awesome.

Please dont ever again mention Implements of Sacrafice...I was embarassed that I had to look it up until I saw it was from Fallen Empires.  How is this card good at all...it actually costs you mana.

Implements sucks but it has a use in the deck it filters for the white and after you cast sunrise it actually nets you mana because you don't pay the 2 mana to cast it. so you put one mana in and it produces 2 pretty much turns into a lotus petal after the first sunrise.

You'll have to excuse me, but doesnt "fun" normally equate to "really bad?"  Something like this will never make it through 5+ rounds of tournament play against top decks.

It is really bad but I said that in the top of my post. The idea is that there is potential and I wanted to open it up to good players who might be able to make it work.  And no "fun" does not equate to bad. I think the top decks are a bunch of fun to play( or maybe I'm wrong and tourneyments are terribly boring and people just play competatively because they have nothing better to do).

If you are going to reply say something useful.

[TheAdvantage]

Implements sucks but it has a use in the deck it filters for the white and after you cast sunrise it actually nets you mana because you don't pay the 2 mana to cast it. so you put one mana in and it produces 2 pretty much turns into a lotus petal after the first sunrise.

The secret to combo decks is getting them to go off, not continuing the chain once you start.  Palinchron can be insane with Tolarian Academy and Mind Over Matter on the board, but it didnt help you get to the point where you could go off, so it wasnt played in Academy decks.  This is the same type of thing.  For Implements to 'not suck' you have to play it and pop it once...for reference, investing 3 mana to gain 2 is bad.  Justifying your card selection by saying it doesnt suck the second time around is pretty lackluster as it completely ignores how bad the card is the first time around.

I know white sucks.

Then why try to build a combo deck around it.  You are trying to build a storm combo deck without Dark Ritual and Tendrils of Agony...stop and think about that for a few minutes.

Even if you could make it consistent, sans disruption, what benefits does it have over playing either of the mentioned decks?

Wow...avoiding the question is tech.

[Swanky]

If you are going to reply say something useful.

There are nicer ways of facing someone's criticism.  It behooves you to dabble in them.  That is my useful piece of advice for you.

Concerning the deck- I would much rather run Mono-U Brain Freeze (Essentially a High Tide variant that's not a good deck in and of itself, but is exponentially better than this deck due to its ability to run Force of Will.).  Your lack of disruption isn't just a speed bump in the development in the deck; the highway has been closed down for repairs, friend.  There are better Brain Freeze decks out there I suggest you look into.  Running an inferior build of something never helped anyone.

[bomholmm]

The secret to combo decks is getting them to go off, not continuing the chain once you start.  Palinchron can be insane with Tolarian Academy and Mind Over Matter on the board, but it didnt help you get to the point where you could go off, so it wasnt played in Academy decks.  This is the same type of thing.  For Implements to 'not suck' you have to play it and pop it once...for reference, investing 3 mana to gain 2 is bad.  Justifying your card selection by saying it doesnt suck the second time around is pretty lackluster as it completely ignores how bad the card is the first time around.

Implements does help the combo get started it provides WW to CAST second sunrise.  So it helps get the como going and produces mana once it starts, that seems pretty good to me. Though i would be the first to change the slot if I had a better option.  I tried the Odyssey eggs in its place but I just wasn't satisfied with them.

[TheAdvantage]

Though i would be the first to change the slot if I had a better option.

The point that Swanky and I are trying(apparently, in vain) to get across here is that the very premise of the deck is flawed.  The fact that you are using Implements only makes it worse.

A Sunrise deck will never be a factor in the global/ideal metagame, and therefore, it really doesnt belong in this forum...try this in the Newbie Forum if you're set on improving the deck.

[Matt]

These guys are basically right. [/color]