U/G Madness - Better with or without bazaars?

[Zanetanos101]

Before JP Meyer 's budget version of U/G Madness came out, I was trying to work on a T1 build of U/G madness without bazaars and had some sucess with it.  However, I have recently started to explore the posibility of the addition of Bazaars to the deck.  Here are the pros and cons of bazaars in this deck tha I have come up with thus far.

Pros:

Great card drawing[/list:u]

Madness Outlet[/list:u]

Cons:

Vunerable to Wasteland/Strip Mine[/list:u]

Takes up a lot of space[/list:u]

Can lead to slight tempo losses[/list:u]

After reading these lists of pros and cons I am still unable to come to a conclusion as to which version is more viable in the current meta.  On the one hand the card drawing and the madness outlet on the bazaars is outstanding, but its a land drop that provides no mana and can sometimes lead to a tempo loss versus certain decks (espcially after being wastelanded).  The other con that I see is the amount of space that bazaars take up.  Not only do you have to have 4 lands that aren't really mana sources, but a player playing bazaars would be wise to play with four Squees.  The 8 slots that are used there could be used to a greater benefit.  So my question to everyone on these boards is, which is the better decision in the current meta?

[Razvan]

Squees are good with Wild Mongrel too, not just Bazaar. Besides, they can serve as chump blockers, God forbid one would need too.

Bazaars not only facilitate madness, they really help you dig through your deck for business. You can run Madness without them, it will just be weaker.

Note that most madness builds require both Bazaar and Careful Study. You need madness outlets (at least 10-11) for the deck to function.

And no, Bazaar without Squees can, and does work.

[jpmeyer]

The reason that the 3c Madness decks could run Bazaar was because in addition to the 8 Madness creatures, the deck had Wonder, Anger, Fiery Temper, Roar of the Wurm, Deep Analysis, and so on.  U/G Madness has like half the number of possible cards to utilize with the Bazaar and also sides Wonder and Basking Rootwalla fairly often making Bazaar even worse.

[Razvan]

Oh, I didn't even see the UG part... *feels like an idiot*

UG madness doesn't run Roar of the Wurm? That I didn't know.

[johnstown713]

I like bazaar.  I don't think you should worry about loss of tempo because the deck is fast and always will be.  The power of bazaar is awsome even if only for one use.  If they stip it then they lose a land drop so the tempo stays pretty much even.  you have careful studies so the bazaar is just another way to make a good deck better.  I suggest playing them.

Johnstown713

[Krizzyn]

I dunno, I played UG madness with bazaars at the most recent waterbury and I just didnt make enough good use of them.  As was previously mentioned, I think you need the other easily pitchable cards that red provides to make the bazaars really worth it.  If I didnt draw into some squees, the bazaars just didnt do much for me.

[Raven Fire]

Well, U/G Madness is more of an aggro-control deck and that control part of it really doesn't like having to ditch all those cards.  Your Forces are a lot less useful when you don't have any other cards left in your hand...

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

I remember getting reamed for proposing this deck like a year and a half ago...

http://www.cardshark.com/content/view_article.asp?article_id=1919

If I remember right, (we had tested this beast quite extensively and my friend won a mox emerald with it) the deck benefitted more from Survival of the Fittest than it did from Bazaar.  The only drawback being that you had to up the creature count to make the Survival worthwhile, but when you were slinging multiple, untargetable, flying 3/3's at someone's head it didn't matter too much.

It's been absolutely forever since I've looked at this deck, but it has always been good. It just took JP's word to make it so, I guess. I see this deck getting better now of course, and the list I put together wasn't completely optimal at that time. (I think it had changed by like 5 or 6 cards after I had written that article).

[Klep]

I remember getting reamed for proposing this deck like a year and a half ago...

http://www.cardshark.com/content/view_article.asp?article_id=1919

....
 It just took JP's word to make it so, I guess. I see this deck getting better now of course, and the list I put together wasn't completely optimal at that time. (I think it had changed by like 5 or 6 cards after I had written that article).

That deck is completely different from JP's U/G Madness.  Just looking at the main deck I see that they're different by over 30 cards.  When a deck is over 50% different from another deck, you can in no way say they are the same.

In addition, even if they were the same deck, which they are not, the environment has completely shifted since this time last year, and the deck that makes U/G good now did not even exist as a concept then.  

So cut the crap.  U/G Madness (and not your deck, real U/G Madness) is good because it posts good numbers against Slavery and even numbers against Tog.  Not because JP says it's good.

[jpmeyer]

Yeah dude, the decks are mad different.  The old deck doesn't even have Wild Mongrel in it!

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

I agree the decks are different.  I wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out that maybe SotF might be a good card to try; and that this archetype could've been around a whole lot sooner if people didn't naturally dismiss budget decks. I apologize if it sounded arrogant, or if I sounded like I was taking credit in some way.  This deck has been around in T2 and extended waaaaay to long to do that.