Preacher of Madness

[Ephraim]

Preacher of Madness

Creature -- Cleric
1/1

Whenever an opponent discards a card, you may gain life equal to that card's converted mana cost.

***

I'm not certain if black should be able to gain life this easily, but it follows the theme of most black gains - benefiting from somebody else's suffering. It's a pretty straightforward idea. I figured that it's probably not better than Disciple of the Vault, so it'd be a perfectly tolerable common, as it is.

[Ephraim]

Current Wording:

Preacher of Madness
{1}{B}
Creature -- Cleric
1/1

Whenever an opponent discards a card, you may discard a card. If you do, that player loses 3 life and you gain 3 life.
The night, tho' clear, shall frown,
And the stars shall not look down
From their high thrones in the Heaven
With light like Hope to Mortals given;
--Edgar Allen Poe,
"Spirits of the Dead"

Changes:
modified life gain to 2 life (Jacob Orlove)
increased casting cost (Matt, Jacob Orlove)
added flavour text (Edgar Allen Poe)

[Matt]

This is far and away the best lifegain spell ever printed. I can't imagine how this isn't undercosted by at least two mana. On the plus side, this is a hell of a detriment to Tog.

[Ephraim]

That certainly wasn't the response I was expecting. I guess I was only taking into account forced discard, without really considering how it would affect games where the opponent is discarding stuff intentionally (which plays a larger part in Type 1 than I'm used to seeing in casual play.) So, you think I should increase this thing's casting cost by at least , eh? So, I suppose the options under consideration are , {B}, or . I think for the latter two, I would make it a 1/2 or a 2/2. I'm not opposed to cheap creatures not being combat ready, but if I'm paying four mana for something, I definitely want it to survive a Tremor.

[Matt]

The size isn't important. This could be a 3/3 for 3B - the important thing is that if it not come down turn one, because if it does it would be very difficult for anything that wins via finite damage to kill you.

This is like two anti-Megrims for one mana. This really, really punishes aggro that isn't like Stompy or Sligh (full of one-mana cards).

[brendan]

Discarding isnt the drawback it used to be though, so I think something that punishes it is pretty cool.

This is a little cheap, but going up to 4 mana is crazy-talk.

[Ephraim]

Here's my take on this card. As the card is right now, It would hardly make any impact in block or standard, is almost worthless in limited. If it did make an impact in those formats, it would only be to make mono-black control of some sort interesting and viable once again. I don't keep track of extended, so I couldn't say at all what sort of an impact it would have there. Now, Matt seems to think that it would be really powerful [presumably] in Type 1. I admit, I hadn't thought of how strong this is versus Psychatog or against something like Wheel of Fortune. Here's my question: Is there anyway to cost this creature so that it isn't a big pile of suck in other formats, just to balance it in Type 1?

[Jacob Orlove]

Just make it 2 life. That's easier to remember, too. I'm not sure what the casting cost would have to be for that, though. Could you go to 1B?

[Ephraim]

Hah! Don't I feel like a dipstick! I was so concerned with changing this card's casting cost that I didn't even consider modifying the ability. 2 life seems okay. I'm having second thoughts about how colour-appropriate this is, though. It depends on discard, which is very Black in flavour, but it's also repeatable life gain, which is much more White in flavour. When black gains life, it tends to be by draining it from other creatures/players. If nothing else, I'm going to want really good flavour text on this, to solidify this idea of converting an opponent's mind into life for the Preacher's master.

[Matt]

I thought of making it a set number of life, but didn't say anything. I don't know why. Two life/discard would be fine on a 1/2 for 1B and may be fine even on a 1/1 for B.

This is perfectly in-flavor, I feel no need to change it.

[Ephraim]

I think I'll leave it as it is. It's a solid Uncommon, as is. An extra point of toughness isn't really necessary, if the converted mana cost isn't 3+. Also, while I could get away with , isn't overcosted.

It's got pretty short rules text, though. I think I'm going to dig around for some Poe or Lord Byron to use as flavour text.

[Ephraim]

Possible Flavour Text:

The night, tho' clear, shall frown,
And the stars shall not look down
From their high thrones in the Heaven
With light like Hope to Mortals given;
--Edgar Allen Poe,
"Spirits of the Dead"

[Jacob Orlove]

Possible Flavour Text:

The night, tho' clear, shall frown,
And the stars shall not look down
From their high thrones in the Heaven
With light like Hope to Mortals given;
--Edgar Allen Poe,
"Spirits of the Dead"

Good stuff.

[Bram]

This shouldn't be too much of a problem for Tog the way it is now. The mathematics of it all are against Tog (since the Tog gets +1.5 for every card discarded and you gain 2 life) but there's several things one needs to take into account:

1. When Berserking the Tog, it still beats this (+3 per discard vs. +2 life gain). This would however require one to discard some 20 cards to kill a 'fresh' opponent assuming an empty 'yard. That could be difficult even for Tog, but just goes to illustrate that even math-wise, this isn't a 'scoop' card for Tog. Which brings me to point #2:

2. Tog will simply not discard cards while this is in play. Not just because the math is unfavorable, but simply because it's a blocker. While against other decks one has the option of simply Berserk / Willing the opponent to death, in this matchup Tog will just have to use its removal on the Preacher or force an opponent to eventually chump block your Tog with it by stretching out the game to the extent where the Tog would deal lethal damage even without its pump bonus (because you sure as hell woudn't want to chump block with the Preacher before that pint ) Both options are quite realistic for Tog.

In other words: this card seems fine now.

[Matt]

It's not just Tog. I was imagining situations like "Cast Addle, naming green. Take Ravenous Baloth, gain 4 life" and "Stupor, oh look, an Akroma and a random card. Guess I'll gain 12 life."

[Bram]

Imagine the original version when playing a Mind Twist against Slavery or something.

'Hit Platinum Angel, Pentavus, Memnarch, Mindslaver. Gain 26 life.'

You're still screwed if they topdeck a Welder though

[Ephraim]

Wow...The way you guys are talking, I'm seriously tempted to increase this guy's casting cost to {B} or more and change him back to the original ability. I'd love for Suicide Black or Black Control to be viable archetypes (or at least playable as rogues) because of this guy.

[Ephraim]

I'm leaving him as is.

24 Hour Clock

[OPColby]

Huge problem, which I don't think anyone has realized:  The card is black.

Life gain should be white, plain and simple.  Black has mana-production via dark ritual, white has healing salve.

I always return to the Alpha five "three" cards for what a color's intentional strategy is:

Dark Ritual
Lightning Bolt
Ancestral Recall
Healing Salve
Giant Growth

If you want to make it more black, keep it at one B (which would be really powerful,) or 2B, and have it deal 2 damage to target opponent.

If you make it 2B, make his power/toughness either 2/2 or 1/3.  I'd prefer 1/3.

If you really like the life-gain ability, make it WW and 2/2, or W and 1/2.

Just the card's name infers that it's white.

I love the card idea, but putting this card in black not only makes T1 suck more for white, (by taking away something it should have, AND making black MORE dominant,) but it destroys an entire deck.  This will be a sideboard card for nearly EVERY deck if it's black.

If it's white, well...only a few decks play white.  So it won't make that big of an impact.  U/W Landstill would become more popular, as well as Keeper.

[Jebus]

The colorwheel has shifted.  Dark Ritual type stuff (short term mana acceleration through sacrificing other resources) has moved to Red.

Black has plenty of life gain these days.  It isn't normally like Whites gain.  It is normally a side effect to something else negative happening (a creature dying for example).

[Matt]

[OPColby]

I love the Trogdor avatar.

Although red might have mana-production, it's still nothing like black.  Look at how many insane cards black has at the 3 mana casting cost.  That's no blunder.  Look how many 'sacrifice this card to add B to your mana pool' black has.  Look at Lake of the dead for crying out loud.

Although every color has one or two exceptions, the principle still remains.

Psonic Blast in blue is direct damage.  Prodigal Sorcerer is direct damage.  Yeah, okay, but that's it.

You have a bunch of green cards manipulating the library and hand size.  Sylvan Library, Natural Selection, etc.  The principles still remain, though.  And you have green focusing more on creatures than blue does by a long shot.

I don't believe the color wheel has shifted.  Although cards have been made with a slight exception to the wobbly rule that they fell under in Alpha, Alpha itself had slight exceptions to the rules they were founded on.

One thing is certain, though.  This card is not a black card.

Show me one black card that has to do with exclusive life-gain.  That's it's purpose for being played.  Go ahead.

Drain Life is more helpful because it deals damage to your opponent.  It gives you life as a nice add-on, sure, but the function of drain life is to kill your opponent.  It's a suped-up-fireball.

It also gets the drawback of you can only use black mana on it.

This card isn't dealing any damage.  Where's it getting the life from?  It's just producing it on it's own?  BLACK DOESN'T DO THAT!

[Matt]

Show me one black card that has to do with exclusive life-gain. That's it's purpose for being played. Go ahead.

[Jebus]

It's gaining life from the loss of another resource.  It isn't getting it from nothing.

[OPColby]

My point exactly.  

Mournful Zombie proves what I've been saying all along.  You need white to produce life, not mono-black.

El-Ha needs to inflict damage for you to gain some.  (same as drain life).  You need to remove stuff in graveyards to gain life for the other card.

Exclusive life-gain, (producing life, not simply getting it,) is not in black.  It is not meant to be in black.  It screws white up.  What does white have then?

You could do this and it'd be cool with me:

Preacher of Madness
2B
Creature -- Human
1/3 or 2/2, (or maybe 0/4?  0/4 cards look COOL)

For every card an opponent discards, you may have Preacher of Madness deal 1 damage to that player and gain you 1 life.

That'd be the best of both worlds, and, it would be in keeping with the Drain Life/Dark Ritual (2B) Alpha basics.

[Jebus]

White has "Play this, I GAIN LIFE!!!!"

Black Has "Something happens, I gain life"

I don't see the big deal.

[Ephraim]

The card you've suggested would be significantly better than the one that currently exists. Life gain might be more themely in white but as Jebus has said, this only gains life when your opponent loses cards. Furthermore, if I go with your drain life ability, this becomes a kill card rather than just a way for black to take advantage of discard. Look at Geth's Grimoire. You could argue that drawing cards is blue, but there, they've given it to an artifact with the same sort of trigger as I've given to my black card here.

[Matt]

[OPColby]

Artifacts have everything.  Look at Rod of Ruin.  That's "red."

Look at the four towers from Mirrodin.  You have every "color" tower except for red.

Eons gains you life,
Champions makes your creatures stronger,
Murmurs puts stuff in the graveyard (another black theme,)
and Fortunes nets you cards.

If you want more proof:  Look at their art.  Guess what color surrounds each tower?  Yep.  That's right.  White/Green/Black/Blue.

Sol'kanar isn't mono-black.

Dross Harvester has a "i'll deal you damage" drawback.  Same with Juzam Djinn, etc.  That's not exclusive to black, but once again, black has the most of it.

And killing someone by making them discard cards isn't a new concept.  I forget the one card, Megrim, was it?

[Jebus]

Black has always had a theme of "Something shitty happens (normally to your oppoent) THEN take advantage of that".

This is exactly that.

It isn't like white's "I come into play, HAVE SOME LIFE!!".

It's quite black.  It works.  It's fine.