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Author Topic: Getting the edge in a tornament  (Read 3641 times)
Morpheus31
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« on: May 11, 2004, 07:08:57 pm »

Things you wear may have an effect on your performance at a tornament
Now i know what everyone is thinking. "this guy can not be serious" but i am and i have some theories on certain intagibles of tornament play that people do not talk about.  

Confort Level:When you sit down at a tornament and play your match you want all your focus on the match at hand.  Because of this i feel it is neccessery to leave unneccessery objects in your car or in friends car.  By unneccessery i mean your bag, wallet and magic parafenelia that is not associated to the game you are going to be playing.  I carry a dice bag a small piece of paper and a pen.  I only cary the dice bag if i need counters or tokens for a specific deck.  
If you go to large torny like the mana drain open you probably will want to trade with people and having your bag in your car or your friends car can make trading with people difficult.  If you are anal and like having your bag with you at all times then you will probably will be more confortable having your bag with you at all times.  I on the other hand am paranoid about people stealing my things and cannot concentrate when my bag is on the floor next to me when i am playing or that i will forget my bag after the match.  My suggestions for those who are avid traders is to ask people if they have what you are looking for if they answere in the affirmitive then go get your bag.  

Psychological Advantage
There was a study done at a prominent university where the college students took there final exams in suits and ties, while other students took the tests in regular clothes.  The students who took the tests in ties and other white collar work clothes did better than there counterparts who wore regular clothes.  So if you want an edge on the compitition act like your going to work and wear a tie, it's just crazy enough to work.  I will try this at the next mana drain open so look for the guy wearing a tie.  

Random tips:
1.Do not wear sunglasses to magic tornaments and if you can avoid wearing regular glasses then do that to.  Poker players wear sunglasses so there oponents do not see were there eyes are going.  This would seem like an advantage in the game but that advantage can becomes a disadvantage when the cards you are holding can be seen in the reflection of your glasses by your oponent.  Your opponent has virtual Telepathy an advantage that you can avoid.
2. Play a deck you feel comfortable with even if it is a bad deck or just bad for the metagame.  

Thanks for reading this random pile of advise.  I will try to write about interesting things in the type one forum that people ussually do not write about. Thanks for reading.
PS I apoligize for spelling errors.
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TheAdvantage
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2004, 07:19:27 pm »

Quote from: Morpheus31
2. Play a deck you feel comfortable with even if it is a bad deck or just bad for the metagame.


Even better advice:  Do not become comfortable with bad decks.

Quote from: Morpheus31
PS I apoligize for spelling errors.


If you know there are errors why dont you correct them?

I hate to sound rude, but all of this is painfully obvious and therefore, not much help.

Dont wear reflective sunglasses to show my opponent my hand??  No shit!

Instead of focusing on such psychological edges, why not focus on playtesting decks or making the right decisions?  Focusing on the latter will have a much larger impact on your results than not wearing glasses or not having to worry about your trade stock.

So even if I'm extremely uncomfortable in a suit and tie and I'll have to stay in said suit and tie for 8 hours in close quarters in a room that is likely to be several degrees warmer than I would prefer, it would, excuse the pun, suit me better than wearing shorts and a t shirt?
(Run-ons 4L!)
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Morpheus31
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2004, 07:29:26 pm »

The advantage wrote:
Quote
I hate to sound rude, but all of this is painfully obvious and therefore, not much help.

I see people wearing reflective sunglasses ALL THE TIME.  I tell my oponents that you can see there hands ALL the time.
The other things were just suggestion and everyone does playtest or should but i wanted to write about something diferent that isn't as boring and tired as "playtest until your hands fall off".
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Nantuko Rice
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2004, 08:57:20 pm »

Add-on to Psychologicla Advantage

I take advantage of psychological tricks. At every tournament I go to, for every match, I am the super nice guy. It freaks people out and causes pla yerrors. Always smile and never look upset, even if you're getting your ass kicked. Just smile and laugh.
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Eastman
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2004, 09:55:33 pm »

I wouldn't say sunglasses are a nono. Just make sure they're sunglasses that aren't reflective. A little forethought can go a long way as far as that is concerned.
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graywolf
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 06:34:47 am »

I wear glasses (progressive bifocals now)

I used to play without my (old) glasses. I could see my hand but sometimes had to lean forward to see what my opponent was playing. If I played with my (old) glasses, I could clearly see what my opponent was playing but my hand would be blurry unless I held them out from my body.

Now I just wear my new glasses to see clearly at both distances. I also wear a ball cap with the brim pulled low to reduce the chances of opponent seeing my cards in any reflection in the glasses.
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Sawse
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2004, 03:01:55 pm »

At one of the T1 tournaments i was at lately, one of the guys was wearing really dark sun glasses (black). I guess you if they arent reflective, and you dont shave in the morning, you can have the whole badass intimidation aspect goin. Just food for thought.
Anyway, I usually wear a hat when I play, if you pull the brim down a bit you can usually look at certain parts of the board and not bring their attention it it (Forgetting to do an activated ability you are waiting to stifle, etc.). Not to mention, hats dont reflect =] Unless you get a green golf visor...which i dont reccomend unless you want to be a social outcast for eternity....but lets not go there.
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jdl
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2004, 03:07:07 pm »

Quote from: Sawse
Unless you get a green golf visor...which i dont reccomend unless you want to be a social outcast for eternity....but lets not go there.

Magic players should probably be careful about throwing around terms like "social outcast".
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Jim
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2004, 03:31:49 pm »

Quote from: jdl
Quote from: Sawse
Unless you get a green golf visor...which i dont reccomend unless you want to be a social outcast for eternity....but lets not go there.

Magic players should probably be careful about throwing around terms like "social outcast".



LOLOLOOOLLOOLO. Whatever might you be talking about!? Magic players the friendliest of all social butterflies. They are always the center of attention.

/end sarcasm
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Ivantheterrible
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2004, 06:07:51 am »

Quote
There was a study done at a prominent university where the college students took there final exams in suits and ties, while other students took the tests in regular clothes. The students who took the tests in ties and other white collar work clothes did better than there counterparts who wore regular clothes. So if you want an edge on the compitition act like your going to work and wear a tie, it's just crazy enough to work. I will try this at the next mana drain open so look for the guy wearing a tie.


This is pretty hard to believe i cant see how a tie and a suit which are fairly tight cloths are more comfertable then baggy cloths. Maybe for you this is true but i know for me i would rather ware somewhat baggy jeans and shirt instead of wearing a stiff office suit and i think the majority of people in here feel the same based on what the general appearl of tournies is.

Also as someone said earlier all the time you spend on physcological thoughts in the game would be better spent playtesting. Leave freud for colleges and do your playtesting in magic and all will be as it is meant to.
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InZane
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2004, 06:31:56 am »

thanks for the tip about the green golf visor... i'm really gonna try that...=)
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DutchJungelist
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2004, 06:53:13 am »

That experiment with the clothes was done with previous priming of pictures of an acountant and a punk if im not mistaken and the whole suit thing was to recomfirm the previous priming.
I could be wrong but simply wearing the 3 piece is not gonna do a whole lot for your game unless you undergo serious priming and even then the conditions would have to be the same otherwize youd have to much "haze" in  across the conditions and therefore blur the result.

Anyways simply put youd be alot more effective if you wore certain colors or forced your opponent to look at them for an extended period of time and even then it would be minimal.

(yes i study psychology, yes im doing the reaserch, not the clinical psychology so i do have some basis for what im saying)

thought id give some input
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ill_Dawg
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2004, 07:33:15 am »

I always wear sunglasses.  They are like a part of me.  (see my avatar).  Even though I din't wear reflective ones usually, I generally don't care if my opponant can see what I have in my hand.  I'm going to win anyhow.  

-=ADAM=-
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Toad
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2004, 07:50:15 am »

Quote from: Morpheus31
2. Play a deck you feel comfortable with even if it is a bad deck or just bad for the metagame.


Or just play the best deck in your given metagame, regardless if you feel more or less comfortable with it or another one. I played Long in tourneys in November and December and anyone who knows me knows how I hate playing Combo (hehehe, ask the Dutch!). Eh, too bad Long was the best deck available at that time :<
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AIcOPed
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2004, 02:49:33 am »

I think the suit/tie thing has some merit. I have never tried it for a tourney, but we all feel more responsible when dressed up. We feel more intelligent, and do not want to let that image down. I would say that maybe for magic a more realistic outfit would be nice docker type pants and a three button shirt to go for that elite type look.
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rvs
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2004, 03:43:50 am »

Quote from: Toad
Quote from: Morpheus31
2. Play a deck you feel comfortable with even if it is a bad deck or just bad for the metagame.


Or just play the best deck in your given metagame, regardless if you feel more or less comfortable with it or another one. I played Long in tourneys in November and December and anyone who knows me knows how I hate playing Combo (hehehe, ask the Dutch!). Eh, too bad Long was the best deck available at that time :<


Weren't you running Stacker around that time? Didn't I turn 1 you when you got a dreamstart against me? Smile
Go combo Go! Very Happy
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2004, 04:06:48 am »

I started playing Long after that match.
You made me play Combo. I hate you :<
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2004, 04:07:31 am »

Quote from: Toad

You made me play Combo. I hate you :<


Netherlands - France 1-0 Smile
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BlkXplsn
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2004, 08:43:48 am »

Play a deck that is good to play in your metagame, learn how to play it well, and test - test - test. That is how you get an "edge"... the only thing I care about as far as my opponent's look are concerned is if I think they are dirty enough to make my sleeves crappy.

This sorta reminds me of those informercials on TV late at night. LOSE WEIGHT FAST!!!!13. Buy this miracle product, etc. All you need to do to lose weight is to eat less shit and exercise.

EDIT: And Legend is the only one allowed to wear ties. Final answer.
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bebe
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2004, 11:11:39 am »

To me it comes down to Johnnies and Spikes.

My take on what makes Johnnies and Spikes ... Before rambling on
I will sum up what makes a great player ... notoriety on the net.
Now we can talk about what seperates the good players from the average.

        I play in the Toronto area where we have a number of
small local tournaments. I win some and lose more. I get
to experience playing against some of the local players which are a very mixed
lot at the best of times. Wu, Shockwave, Razor, Dicemanx and others have all
fallen under my radar.

        It reaffirmS for me the differences in attitudes between
our motley crew of players. I'm sure all major cities will have the same
mixed bunch.

My categorization of Johnnies:

        I hear a number of players saying "it's just a game".  This
comprises a fair number of players who are and are not 'scrubs'.  
By and large they're nice people playing a game they enjoy.
They have net access but they don't bother studying
the endless strategy discussions and often build the decks they
want to build. They will play Dragon with two Bazaars and feel comfortable
waiting to see if they can trade for a third.

        The Johnnies i like the least are the "I'm better than you are".  
You want to beat these guys because they have no clue that
they're scrubs- they think they're Jp and Steve combined.
If they lose they were the unluckiest players at the event. They
bitterly complain about losing to a mana screw- convieniently ignoring the fact
that they failed to mulligan in a single match. They slap together net
sideboards but have no clue what to put in or what to remove from the main deck.
Sound familiar?


     The best Johnnies are the "I know I can" ones.  These are the guys who
show up at tournaments convinced mono- green Stompy decks based around
ten-land synergy are still highly competitive. They're usually
good guys- probably very successfull when playtesting against friends, and
generally bereft of many of the idiosyncracies that make many
tournament players obnoxious. But they don't spend the time or the
money necessary to become masters of the game.  I have played many a player
who understood the game well enough but was playing a truly hopeless deck.


    The "I just cannot win" Johnnies are the most confusing.
These are the most subtle of Johnnies.  They'll play a very solid game,
bringing a solid deck.  And they lose. Again and again. They make
the top eight in almost every tournemnt they enter.  But they always
memorize every card in every arch type.

     The "I am the rules" gurus.  These guys are the absolute worst.
I can't count the number of times in tournaments that we've had 'rules issues'.
They alway get put down by the better Vintage players on rules issues.
You can throw away entire games because you misunderstand the
the rules of your own deck. I've lent out my Dragon to see players with a Gorger
in the grave and a  Bazaar on the table not aware that they can go off
without the Laquatious. When in doubt I call for a judge or ask
Peter or Rich or someone what they think is correct. We have
all suffered from incorrect rulings but don't put yourself up as the authority
unless you are.

     Now for how to become a Spike:  

      There is a big difference between netdecking a deck
and researching it. Spikes do their research. If you're planning to
play in a tournament and do well, you have top know what the
'best decks' are, and then play those decks to see how they
work.  No deck is so easy to play that you can just pick it up
five minutes before a tournament. This often leads to
misunderstandings of the deck's strengths and weaknesses.  
For example, when playing JPs Madness deck you pretty much ignore
opposing creatures. Get the Wonder in the yard and win. Playing combo
you often will focus on your deck and try to combo off turn one or
two regardless of what your opponent is doing.

      You  will lose some games to pure bad luck-by being outplayed
or because your opponent has the better deck in the match up.
Being confident in your knowledge ofthe game is nice
but it won't make you a better player. I may elect to
make a play and eventually lose a game. After the match,
I will ask my opponent  what he thought of my assessment of the risks
of making that play. If a play is not an obvious strategy decision,
it is useful to get another appraisal of the situation.

     Precision is very important.  At large tournaments I've seen games
in the Final 8 that's become a parody of the  game. Mistakes are
made at an alarming rate. You could attribute it to weariness. One thing
I've noticed is that with the best players these mistakes are quite rare.
Good players are precise and maintain their focus.

     Successfull players have winning attitudes.
they are not nervous about the outcome of
a tournament.  They have a confident attitude.
You cannot sit down to play a good player and say to
yourself "I can't possibly win this match".  Successful players
want the victory and believe they are capable of
achieving it. Sounds pretty cliche but it still holds true.
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bebe
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2004, 11:17:25 am »

Tounamnet performances come down to Johhny and Spike.

My take on what makes Johnnies and Spikes ... Before rambling on
I will sum up what makes a great player ... notoriety on the net.
Now we can talk about what seperates the good players from the average.

        I play in the Toronto area where we have a number of
small local tournaments. I win some and lose more. I get
to experience playing against some of the local players which are a very mixed lot at the best of times. Wu, Shockwave, Razor, Dicemanx and others have all fallen under my radar.

        It reaffirmS for me the differences in attitudes between
our motley crew of players. I'm sure all major cities will have the same
mixed bunch.

My categorization of Johnnies:

        I hear a number of players saying "it's just a game".  This
comprises a fair number of players who are and are not 'scrubs'.  
By and large they're nice people playing a game they enjoy.
They have net access but they don't bother studying
the endless strategy discussions and often build the decks they
want to build. They will play Dragon with two Bazaars and feel comfortable
waiting to see if they can trade for a third.

        The Johnnies i like the least are the "I'm better than you are".  
You want to beat these guys because they have no clue that
they're scrubs- they think they're Jp and Steve combined.
If they lose they were the unluckiest players at the event. They
bitterly complain about losing to a mana screw- convieniently ignoring the fact that they failed to mulligan in a single match. They slap together net
sideboards but have no clue what to put in or what to remove from the main deck.
Sound familiar?


     The best Johnnies are the "I know I can" ones.  These are the guys who show up at tournaments convinced mono- green Stompy decks based around ten-land synergy are still highly competitive. They're usually
good guys- probably very successfull when playtesting against friends, and
generally bereft of many of the idiosyncracies that make many
tournament players obnoxious. But they don't spend the time or the
money necessary to become masters of the game.  I have played many a player who understood the game well enough but was playing a truly hopeless deck.


    The "I just cannot win" Johnnies are the most confusing.
These are the most subtle of Johnnies.  They'll play a very solid game,
bringing a solid deck.  And they lose. Again and again. They make
the top eight in almost every tournemnt they enter.  But they always
memorize every card in every arch type.

     The "I am the rules" gurus.  These guys are the absolute worst.
I can't count the number of times in tournaments that we've had 'rules issues'. They alway get put down by the better Vintage players on rules issues. You can throw away entire games because you misunderstand the
the rules of your own deck. I've lent out my Dragon to see players with a Gorger in the grave and a  Bazaar on the table not aware that they can go off without the Laquatious. When in doubt I call for a judge or ask
Peter or Rich or someone what they think is correct. We have
all suffered from incorrect rulings but don't put yourself up as the authority unless you are.

     Now for how to become a Spike:  

      There is a big difference between netdecking a deck
and researching it. Spikes do their research. If you're planning to
play in a tournament and do well, you have top know what the
'best decks' are, and then play those decks to see how they
work.  No deck is so easy to play that you can just pick it up
five minutes before a tournament. This often leads to
misunderstandings of the deck's strengths and weaknesses.  
For example, when playing JPs Madness deck you pretty much ignore
opposing creatures. Get the Wonder in the yard and win. Playing combo
you often will focus on your deck and try to combo off turn one or
two regardless of what your opponent is doing.

      You  will lose some games to pure bad luck-by being outplayed
or because your opponent has the better deck in the match up.
Being confident in your knowledge ofthe game is nice
but it won't make you a better player. I may elect to
make a play and eventually lose a game. After the match,
I will ask my opponent  what he thought of my assessment of the risks
of making that play. If a play is not an obvious strategy decision,
it is useful to get another appraisal of the situation.

     Precision is very important.  At large tournaments I've seen games
in the Final 8 that's become a parody of the  game. Mistakes are
made at an alarming rate. You could attribute it to weariness. One thing
I've noticed is that with the best players these mistakes are quite rare.
Good players are precise and maintain their focus.

     Successfull players have winning attitudes.
they are not nervous about the outcome of
a tournament.  They have a confident attitude.
You cannot sit down to play a good player and say to
yourself "I can't possibly win this match".  Successful players
want the victory and believe they are capable of
achieving it. Sounds pretty cliche but it still holds true.
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