TurboNevyn, revisited

[SpikeyMikey]

I got out of Magic last fall, stopped playing it, stopped selling on Ebay, stopped watching the formats.  I was disgusted with the restrictions that were popping up, and the sets being printed.  After hearing about Crucible of Worlds, however, I decided that I should start taking a look at T1 again.

I've always had a great fascination with TurboNevyn, in fact, despite playing Sligh in almost every tournament I went to, I'd always put it together from time to time, just because it was so fun.  Something about it just screams entertainment.  When Gush was restricted, I figured that was the end of the deck, it cut a core out of it's draw engine, and effectively neutered it for the sake of people to lazy to try and deal with GAT.  Crucible not only gives Turboland it's balls back, it coated them in steel and gave the deck some fucking teeth too.

The only deck I've tested it against so far is WelderMUD, and the matchup is about 70/30 in favor of MUD, in large part due to infinite slaver/smokestack/tangle wire recursion.  Recurring jar can be a problem for the deck too, since one traditional weakness of turboland is it's inability to go off if both regrowth and timetwister are in the grave together.  In any case, on to the decklist:

Draw(7)
4xHorn of Greed
1xFact or Fiction
1xAncestral Recall
1xGush

Tutoring(3)
1xDemonic Tutor
1xVampiric Tutor
1xEnlightened Tutor

Combo Pieces(14)
4xExploration
3xCrucible of Worlds
3xZuran Orb
1xFastbond
1xStroke of Genius
1xRegrowth
1xTimetwister

Counterspells(8)
4xForce of Will
4xMana Drain

Misc. Junk(2)
1xSylvan Scrying
1xTime Walk

Mana Base(26)
7xSoLoMoxen
4xTropical Island
2xVolcanic Island
2xUnderground Sea
2xTundra
2xWasteland
2xFlooded Strand
1xPolluted Delta
1xStrip Mine
1xUndiscovered Paradise
1xTolarian Academy
1xLibrary of Alexandria

Not incredibly sure of what I'd run in the board yet, I'll have to do some more testing with the deck, but given that the deck really only fears counterspells, deed, mindslaver, and Chalice, I'd have to say that 4 REB's and at least 3 naturalizes would probably be must have cards for the board.  Perhaps a few Rack and Ruins, to kill Chalice for two.

In addition to allowing for recurring Strips, and rendering you nearly invulnerable to LD, it allows for recurring fetches, smoothing the mana base.  With either fetches or Zuran Orb, it provides for all the lands you can use in a turn to draw off Horn.  Basically, everything the deck could do with Gush, it can do better with Crucible.  The interaction between Fastbond, Crucible, and Zuran Orb is what caused me to replace Fire/Ice with the older Stroke of Genius as the kill condition, you don't need to even have a Horn of Greed in play to go off, as you can generate infinite mana and life with those 3.  You'd probably still want Fire/Ice in the board to help deal with Welders and other assorted weenies.  Perhaps Slice and Dice as well, for decree.

I know the question is going to come up, so I'm going to try and answer as best I can now.  Why no Cunning Wish?  Basically, there's no C. Wish because I have no room for it.  There's nothing in the deck that bears cutting, in fact, it's been hard enough to find things to remove when sideboarding.  If I didn't think the deck would lose a great deal of consistancy from cutting a Zuran Orb or an Exploration, I would squeeze C. Wish in, but I don't think I could cut either of those safely, and nothing else in the deck really lends itself to being cut either.

I am somewhat iffy on FoW, simply because the deck runs so few blue cards to pitch to it(at a minimum, Twister and Stroke cannot be pitched to it), but I suppose I'm not too opposed to pitching Ancestral to FoW if it means winning the game, so for now, it's staying.

[Toad]

In addition to allowing for recurring Strips, and rendering you nearly invulnerable to LD, it allows for recurring fetches, smoothing the mana base.

If you have Fastbond out, why would you drop a Crucible of Worlds and start recurring Wastelands and fetchlands when you can simply drop a Horn of Green and win?

Winning > Recurring lands.

[SpikeyMikey]

Well, for one, I'd probably strip all their lands before I dropped horn, just to screw them out of Drain or any other quirky tricks.  Two, you don't always have Horn of Greed, although if you have a method for ensuring a Horn in hand at all times, I'd love to hear it, cuz I'm not sure you could lose in that case  This deck runs precious little draw outside of the Horns, and while it's enough to get by, with the tutoring, you can't assume that you're always going to have everything you need in hand.

[rozetta]

Ah, yes. This is one of my all time favourite decks. I even played it post-Gush restriction to a top-8 finish some time ago (I had a build that ran 4 burning wish for yawgwill, but that's not an option either anymore). Here's some of my thoughts:

- considering the number of 3-mana artifacts, and it's synergy with the deck's general plan, have you ever considered Workshops?

- I'd say it's pretty safe to run somewhere between 24 and 28 land, which means you can run the full set of 5 strips quite easily.

- Tendrils of Agony is a win condition that works in this deck, since it's easy to get a storm count of 9 or 10 while going off by just casting random exploration/zuran orb/etc.

- yawgmoth's will is just that good. - definitel run it.

- it might be better to run cunning or burning wish for answers (instead of mana drain) to speed the deck up

- before the restriction of gush, the mana base looked more like:

6 fetch
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea (the old builds ran 4 duress instead of FoW)
2 Volcanic Island
1 or 2 Tundra
3 or 4 Undiscovered Paradise

With this sort of manabase, you can abuse the crucible/fetch/exploration synergy better. Also, moxes are actually somewhat of a hindrance. I'd run Sol Ring and Lotus, and perhaps crypt or vault, but not too many artifact mana sources.

The problem I found the last time I ran this deck was that since the advent of strong artifact-based decks (stax appeared around the time GAT was getting popular), a lot of decks are prepared to easily deal with the combo pieces, such as horn (with Rack and Ruin, etc.) Whether Crucible pushes this back into the realm of competitive playability is likely going to be a factor of how well it's able to fight that artifact hate (either with speed or the mana denial aspect).

I have more to add, but am in a bit of a hurry, so I'll try and address these issues next time I post. Good lukc with the deck and I hope I've provded you with a starting point for tuning.

[Fastbond]

I'd cut Vampiric and Enlightened Tutor.  The problem is that anything you fetch with enlightened tutor won't win the game on it's own.  Let's say you enlightened tutor for hor of greed, you have to wait a turn to draw a card and hope you draw into land.  Or I'd switch the enlightened to mystical so you can tutor for something like timetwister or ancestral recall.

The main problem is there's not a lot of card draw in this deck.  You'll get exploration and fastbond without horn of greed.  You'll get zuran orb without needing it, etc.

[Klep]

If you have to ask if a deck is viable, the answer is no.

You have 14 blue spells including Force, which is too low to be able to reliably cast it.  

As Toad said, if you have Fastbond out, you can drop Horn and just win.  Obviously you were able to resolve Fastbond, you don't need to work on their hand anymore.  Just win instead.  As for ensuring you have a Horn, if you don't run Crucible or Zorb, you have 6 slots for draw.  That will ensure you have a Horn.

In addition, slow, high-cc artifact-reliant combo decks are bad in this environment.  There's too much hate because of better decks like Slaver and 7/10.

And lastly, as rozetta mentioned, you aren't running all of the broken stuff you should be.

[Toad]

At least add 4 Brainstorm.

[Lord of the Goats]

I'd cut Vampiric and Enlightened Tutor.  The problem is that anything you fetch with enlightened tutor won't win the game on it's own.  Let's say you enlightened tutor for hor of greed, you have to wait a turn to draw a card and hope you draw into land.  Or I'd switch the enlightened to mystical so you can tutor for something like timetwister or ancestral recall.

no matter what you do, there's never enought ways to get fastbond. pre gush restriction, both nevyn and myself ran white primarily for enlightened tutor.

that said, crucible will not revive this deck...  honestly i don't think anything will. it was a turn 4 combo deck where a main combo peice benifits your opponent (horn).  dragon is clearly better, as it tps, and belcher.

looks fun though...  try cephalid collesium

[walkingdude]

Yeah, unless things slow down a lot or people do a total rebuild from scratch this deck has no future. Turbo land was my pet deck for years, but the fact is, once gat came out there was no reason to play it and once gat left and took gush with it there was no deck to play.

[SpikeyMikey]

You have 14 blue spells including Force, which is too low to be able to reliably cast it.

I mentioned this, but as painful as Force is, I have to believe that it's necessary, if you can force through the last combo piece, it doesn't really matter if you've got to remove fact, or recall, or a drain, or what have you.

As Toad said, if you have Fastbond out, you can drop Horn and just win.  Obviously you were able to resolve Fastbond, you don't need to work on their hand anymore.  Just win instead.  As for ensuring you have a Horn, if you don't run Crucible or Zorb, you have 6 slots for draw.  That will ensure you have a Horn.

Fastbond and a single Horn doesn't "just win", in fact, it stalls.  A lot.  When Gush was unrestricted, you could attempt to win with just Fastbond and one Horn, but now...

In addition, slow, high-cc artifact-reliant combo decks are bad in this environment.  There's too much hate because of better decks like Slaver and 7/10.

And lastly, as rozetta mentioned, you aren't running all of the broken stuff you should be.

I'm starting to decide that the deck is a little too slow to be playable, with WelderMUD wrecking it and the Control Slaver matchup looking to be just as bad.  I think it'd do well against control and aggro, but not well enough to make it worth spending the money on putting together.  No point in constructing a deck you expect to go 3-3 evey tournament.

[Klep]

I mentioned this, but as painful as Force is, I have to believe that it's necessary, if you can force through the last combo piece, it doesn't really matter if you've got to remove fact, or recall, or a drain, or what have you.

I'm not arguing the inclusion of Force.  I'm arguing the number of blue spells. You don't have enough.

Fastbond and a single Horn doesn't "just win", in fact, it stalls.  A lot.  When Gush was unrestricted, you could attempt to win with just Fastbond and one Horn, but now...

If you find you need more than 2 cards, one of which is restricted and the other of which is a 3cc artifact to win with this deck, then maybe...

I'm starting to decide that the deck is a little too slow to be playable, with WelderMUD wrecking it and the Control Slaver matchup looking to be just as bad.  I think it'd do well against control and aggro, but not well enough to make it worth spending the money on putting together.  No point in constructing a deck you expect to go 3-3 evey tournament.

Exactly.  In addition, because of your inability to effectively counter control's disruption thanks to your too-low blue count, I can't imagine you'd have anything but trouble there either.  You might be able to outrace pure aggro, but aggro is no longer pure, and packs elements of either combo or control which are capable of beating you.  Fish is all about screwing you up, U/G Madness packs 8 counters of it's own in addition to 5 strips, and FCG can outrace you.  I just don't see this deck doing well against anything.

[MaxxMatt]

As I mentioned before, the lock produced is "soft" because it attack ONLY lands. Artifact mana and creatures mana is totally untouched. With less than a lot of lucky and a good skill I can play around you biggest treat ( CoW ) and IF IT resolve, i can try to crush it thanx to mox, wish and counter backup in the right moment.

If you add a good artifact-hate-component to this deck I think that this deck will see more win than lose early.

IMHO, Rods or Shamans are automatic insertions