[deck] my view on dragon

[ninevolt]

4 Worldgorger Dragon
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Shivan Hellkite

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Stifle

4 Intuition
1 Entomb
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
2 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
4 Animate Dead

3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Glimmervoid
2 Badlands
2 Undergound Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet


Sideboard
1 Cunning Wish
1 Brain Freeze
2 Rack and Ruin
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Gaea's Blessing
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lotus Petal




Shivan Hellkite seems to be the best win condition for me if i have to mill into one, and it gets around pesky gaea's blessing tricks that the ambassador runs into. Cunning wish into SB wish repeated for SB brain freeze is another good win cond for me. I used to run Ghitu Fire and Stroke, but being able to Mis-D those made me take them out for the two MD stifles. This build has been running fairly consistant for me for now. But would you change anything?

[Apollyon]

The only difference between your build and most other builds is Shivan Hellkite as the win. I like using Hellkite as a win for the reason of Gaea's Blessing, but it doesn't really matter too much. Gaea's Blessing isn't played very much.

[combo_dude]

Where are the Necromancies? And also, if you have Stifle in the deck, why not use the Ambassador and not end up wrecking your manabase?

Plus, I may be wrong, but can't you work around Blessing anyway?

1. Dragon loop -> infinite mana
2. Target Ambassador, not Dragon -> Ambassador enters play
3. Mill them until Gaea's Blessing goes -> Blessing trigger on the stack
4. In response, keep milling them -> No cards in deck, but Blessing trigger on stack
5. Ancestral them with the trigger on the stack -> they can't draw cards -> they lose.

Or of course you could put Caller of the Claw or Sliver Queen in the deck. Both create infinite creatures, and you aren't going to *have* to kill that turn against most decks running Blessing. They drop Powder Keg and blow it? You've still got the 7/7 Sliver Queen animated. Big deal. You still smash face.

Lastly, I think you've got too many win conditions. If you're using a Wish SB, fine - but don't fill it up with Brain Freeze/Cunning Wish. It's more than what you need; the two win conditions are plenty.

I'd recommend looking at Smmenen's Dragon thread - plenty of good insight there.

[Username?]

1. glimmervoid dont belong in dragon, cuz just jewelry isnt enough to keep it alive

2. why 1 cunning wish?

3. you should have 8-12 reanimation spells, so that a chalice at 2 wont screw u if u had necromancy

4. shivan helkite only works if u have a permant red sorce in play, u basically should take out glimmervoid and put in more duals
another good win condition is caller of the claw because dampling matrix stops, laquatis, sliver queen, shivan helkite and many other creature abillities except for caller of the claw

5. why only 3 bazzar, and 3 squee it would be much more powerful if u had 4 of each

6. you neeeed compulsion and more reanimation spells: animate dead, dance of the dead, necromancy are gud examples

7. one major problem dragon has, is it is highly vulnerable to graveyard hate

[Cpkrug]

A must have in this deck is compulsion.  It allows you to set up your hand before you go for the win, besides the obvious graveyard outlet.  As others have mentioned, necromancy is also a must.  The ability to combo out at instant speed after they attemt to crypt you for example is much more apealing to me than stifleing their crypt.  Just my thoughts, good luck.

[Squee]

The main reason people run Laquatus over Hellkite is that it is blue, and therefor, it pitches to Force of Will which is one of Dragon's main strengths.  You play 18 blue cards including the FoWs and you play 2 Misdirections which means you need more blue cards.  Here is the list I would play

4 Worldgorger Dragon
4 Squee, Goblin nabob
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Sliver Queen
3 Xantid Swarm

4 Force of Will

2 Intuition
3 Compulsion
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Animate Dead
3 Necromancy

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerlad
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Xantid Swarm is very effective at getting past counters and other hate because you can just go off in response with Necromancy.   And like everyone else before me has said, Bazaar and Squee are more effective together in a 4:4 ratio.  

Compulsion is also an absolute must in this deck.  Permanent outlets to dump dragons, Squees, and Queen/Laquatus are what makes Dragon function.  I wouldn't play less then 3 Compulsions, it really is that good.  In your build, 4 Intuition was way too much.  Intuitioning for Squees or other combo pieces is definatley a strong play but it really isn't needed past the first usually.  

Also, if you really wanted to, you could cut green from my deck and add Duresses and more protection and the 4th Compulsion.  Thats just another option though.

[Evilkin]

The main reason people run Laquatus over Hellkite is that it is blue, and therefor, it pitches to Force of Will which is one of Dragon's main strengths.

Ok, this is just wrong and very misinformative.  It being blue has nothing to do with it's inclusion.  It is quite simply the easiest win condition.  It's 1 turn faster then the Sliver Queen and doesn't require a red mana to go off like the Hellkite.  I suppose it could be pitched in Dragon builds that have 2 win conditions.  But it's the only necessary win condition required.

[Squee]

I never said laquatus wasn't the main win condition.  It is.  But being able to prevent another deck like Belcher from going off before you is just a benefit.  I think you have to play 2 win conditions for Dragon to be at it's best.

[Sytupal]

That's not a question.  

Playing two win conditions is a necessity for this deck.  Many Builds run a Laquatus/Caller   or Laquatus/Sliver Queen inclusion.  

The Benefits of Running Sliver Queen/Laquatus is both of their ability to be pitched to force of will.  This IS a very important benefit, and all of you who play or have played dragon know this.    

However, to counteract this point,  Sliver Queen requires that you be able to untap mana, so does Laquatus.  IF Root Maze is prominent in your area or even just one or two decks see them,  the Caller/Laquatus combination should be used.  

The Caller of the Claw allows no untapping in order for you to see your billion 2/2 win condition.  IF you run stifle, against decks like Madness you won't have to worry about the powder keg they may drop while you wait for them to lose summoning sickness, and at the very least you could cast necromancy at eot of their turn so that they don't have a chance to drop the keg and you can swing for the win next turn.  


I advocate the inclusion of win condition combination laquatus/caller of the claw

and

Necromancies

and

Compulsion.  

The 4x Intuition seem a little slow where as if you drop bazaar turn 1 along with a mox/lotus or mox/crypt you can go off turn 1 with the needed extra animate spells.   You definitely need dance of the dead and necromancies

[Lucentspirit]

If I'm running 4xCompulsion in the deck I run Cunning Wish instead of a creature for a second win condition. I then run Stroke of Genius in the sideboard. That way my second win condition is pitchable to FOW and can be used as a tutor for something else if needed. The down side is you can't use bazzar to find it.

Also, I've been toying with the idea of using memnarch as a win condition. You don't mill you opponents deck. You just take all their permanents and win via beatdown.

[Kowal]

If you can generate infinate mana and get the creature of your choice in to play, why wouldn't you just win the game?

[Sytupal]

Lucent Spirit.  

While even i stated that the second win condition is usually better to be blue,  caller of the claw simply gives you a more well rounded ability to win.  Rogue decks pack Root Maze via sideboard which knock the crap out of most dragon decks.  

Kowal's point is right.   Even if you can't get the infinite mana, the opportunity to get the creature of your choice into play which will win you the game is a much better option that going a very slow and vulnerable route via Memnarch.

The Problem with cunning wish is that i like to win as early as possible.  Sometimes this doesn't allow me to have a blue mana source open.  Against an aggro deck green based running blessing, this could become an issue.  Though a small chance this could happen, it still could happen.  In your win condition combination, neither option would work.  Where as running a sliver queen or caller WOULD do the trick.   It has happened, and if an option doesn't weaken any matchups but can help in slight, unusually situations like this, then it's worth it.

[Lucentspirit]

Part of my reasoning behind using Cunning Wish was to have a win condition that could be used with a damping matrix in play. Damping matrix is seeing more play these days and it shuts down dragon via the fact you can't use laquartus to mill or sliver queen to create infinate tokens. Cunning Wish/Stroke of Genius SB gives you an alternate win condition that serves as a tutor if its not needed. I'd prefer to have a cunning wish in my deck rather then a second creature that I may or may not even need.  
     As for Memnarch, right now I play a SB conversion that changes from combo to animate/beat down. I use memnarch as one of my conversion creatures. Already having him in the deck saves me a slot. Blue is seldom an issue since I play U/B dragon and the color curve is much more forgiving then G/B/U.
    I know creating infinate tokens seems better then taking all your opponents permenatnts, but, going the tokens route gives your opponent a full turn to win the game. For decks like Belcher, Slaver, Draw7, FCG, or another Dragon.dec this may be all the time they need. If you take away all your opponents permenants and continue to do so it keeps the game locked in your favor from that point on.

[cssamerican]

Lucentspirit:

I know creating infinate tokens seems better then taking all your opponents permenatnts, but, going the tokens route gives your opponent a full turn to win the game. For decks like Belcher, Slaver, Draw7, FCG, or another Dragon.dec this may be all the time they need.

Against Belcher and Draw7 you won't create tokens you would mill then since they do not run Damping Matix, Root Maze, or Blessing. This is because the don't pack anti-dragon strategies since they should be faster than you.

Against FCG you won't create tokens you would mill then since they do not run Damping Matix, Root Maze, or Blessing. If they did board an anti-dragon strategy it would most likely be Tormod's Crypt or Ground Seal.

Against Dragon you be an idiot to create tokens since it would allow your opponent to have time to animate your Dragon if he didn't already have one in his graveyard and mill you which would cause you to lose before you ever got to use the Tokens.

Slaver is depends on board position and what your Dragon deck has at its disposal. If they have an active welder you need to decide if you can mill them and take the Platinum Angel out, or if you should create the tokens in hopes the can't get the angel out before you swing and win.