Benighted Willower

[Bram]

1. Two common creatures, one uncommon, one rare. One of these should be a cleric. None of these should make extensive use of protection.

OK, so this one is rare as well as a cleric. It's quite obviously a Welder for Enchantments, which is a very white ability since it destroys enchantments (disenchant etc.)  and puts them into play from the yard (Replenish).

Benighted Willower
1W
Creature -- Tree Cleric
0/2
T: Choose target enchantment a player controls and target enchantment  card in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player sacrifices the enchantment in play, then puts the other enchantment from his or her graveyard into play.

This should be less abusable then Welder, since numerous other ways exist to get enchantments into play (for one thing, Rector is unrestricted while Tinker is not). Even so, as I feel Welder is too strong, I upped the mana cost for this one to two. On the name:

Benighted:
adj.
Overtaken by night or darkness.
Being in a state of moral or intellectual darkness; unenlightened.

Willower:
\Wil"low*er\, n.
A willow. See {Willow}, n., 2.

Flavor wise: this is a tree that brings to life old enchantments through perhaps its roots. It is benighted (somewhat evil) since it destroys existing enchantments in the process. Also, more importantly, it's an anagram for 'White Goblin Welder'
 


Current wording:

Wei Red-Leg, Blind Fox
2WW
Legendary Creature - Fox Cleric
0/1
T: Choose target enchantment a player controls and target enchantment card in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player sacrifices the enchantment in play, then puts the other enchantment from his or her graveyard into play.

EDITED:
- toughness lowered by 1 (Sheera)
- changed creature type to Treefolk Cleric
- lots of things. SOOO lazy.

[Sheera]

Also, more importantly, it's an anagram for 'White Goblin Welder'

Love that Idea. I'd however, change some things with this card. The text of Goblin Welder has always been a bit of a templating and rules headache and although it changed over time it didn't really make up for more conciseness and clarity. For the Willower, I therefore suggest the following text: "T, sacrifice an enchantment: Put target enchantment card from your graveyard to play."

Yes, that way it cannot exchange enchantment cards of other players any longer, but I really see no need for it to do so. After all, white usually doesn't "trick around" with other people's stuff. I'd also lower the Willow's toughness by one. That creature should be extremely vulnerable with an ability that powerful.

[Bram]

Lowering the toughness has been suggested by people on IRC as well, and I gotta say I agree with it. I initially went for the Utopia Tree P/T bgut that's not a rule obviously. A willow is a fairly weak tree, so it makes sense.

On the wording: the current one is the exact current Oracle wording for Welder. It's been in place for a while now, and there are no further rules complications with this text. I like the fact that white can get to play around with its opponent's stuff. It's not unprecedented, either (Oracle en-Vec, Debt of Loyalty, Jabari's Influence). Additionally, this is mostly a 'disenchant effect'  when applied to your opponent (which is ofcourse very 'white'); one you probably would even want to use very often since it brings something back. I'm keeping the current wording for now.

[Matt]

Yes but if you went with the shorter non-opponent wording you could have some flavor text explaining the odd name and creature type.

[Ephraim]

The following card is already in the Master List and was created to fill the same niche: a Welder for enchantments. It isn't identical to yours (nor in function to Welder), but the idea was the same.

Leonin Transmuter
{W}
Creature - Cat Wizard
2/2
, sacrifice an enchantment: Return target enchantment from your graveyard to play.

[Bram]

I don't wanna explain everything to my audience, Matt . Let's just let them use their imagination for a bit. I did update the creature type to Treefolk Cleric as than makes mroe sense than Tree Cleric.

Ephraim makes a valid point. These two cards can never co-exist in the same set (or block), but I believe they are sufficiently different for us to have both of them in the master list. Mine isn't a weenie to beat with, and it can play cruel tricks on your opponent.

[Matt]

White treefolk?

[Bram]

He grew up near a chlorine production facility.

[rvs]

He grew up near a chlorine production facility.

the real question is now, who is going to sue?

[Bram]

I wanna close and add this. 24h clox0r.

[Marco]

I like it. And the fact that Benighted Willower is an anagram for White Goblin Welder is just gravy. Nice job!

[Matt]

See, this is an anagram that I don't hate.

[Jacob Orlove]

This seems a little too cheap to me. Breaking past the CC on an enchantment is even more serious than with an artifact, because enchantments have colored mana in their casting cost.

Even something almost castable, like Mirari's Wake or Future Sight, would be absolutely insane on turn 3. And there's enough wild growths, explorations, Rancors (!), and the like to make this work quite easily.

[walkingdude]

The colored mana point is reasonable objection I’d overlooked before. Though, for 2 mana more you could replenish and get all of the enchantments back without having to switch them or worry about summoning sickness or worry about a body getting bolted.. (of course replenish got itself banned so its not a good baseline for power level)

Still, this doesn’t seem to bad to me. To cheat on cost they need
1 this dude
2 the enchantment to cheat
3 the enchantment to switch out
4 a way to discard #2

That’s at least 4 cards which seem like its enough of a burden that this guy won’t be a major problem.

[Jacob Orlove]

Hold on. You can't just stealth add a card like this.

This is still way too powerful. Trash for Treasure is a reasonable baseline for an effect like this. Goblin Welder is NOT. 2 mana is way too cheap for this effect, especially with no mana cost on the activation.

[Bram]

I was just cleaning up my open threads. There were no objections to this for almost 4 months and I made a judgment call. I liked the flavor and the mechanic and believed it to be balanced so I added it. Sue me.

One of two things can happen now. Either we add it with a higher CC (2W)?, or we scratch the idea. Opinions?

[Jacob Orlove]

The idea might work, but this is just way too cheap. I'd like to see it at maybe 1WW with a 1W activation (in addition to tapping). Or you could make it cost more like 2WW and just tap. I think I'd be fine with either of those.

[Bram]

Hmm. I'd probably opt for the 2WW version without activation cost then.

[Bram]

Clock on the current version?

[Jacob Orlove]

Why is this a white treefolk?

[Bram]

White treefolk?

He grew up near a chlorine production facility.

Seriously, the reason is quite mundane.
1. I wanted to make a goblin welder for enchantments.
2. White is the most suitable color for that.
3. I wanted the name to be an anagram for 'white goblin welder'
4. The only one that Icould come up with that made any wense was Benighted Willower.
5. A Willower is a tree, and a tree that's a creature is a treefolk.

If you're looking for flavor and color pie answers:
I don't feel the need to always confine creature types to colors. We can easilty have Red and Blue Humans. OK, so maybe a White Zombie would be stretching it (although there is a precedent in a rather decent band :-) but I see no reason why a tree can't be white. On Earth, we have beeches (?) that are white, for example. As for flavor: this baby sucks up old enchantment spells that have seeped into the ground like so much toxic waste with it roots, and returns them back to the open air through his branches. He's benighted because he realises it may cost him his innocence (his 'whiteness' so to speak) because he may well help in retrieving naste Black shit like Pestilence.

Will that do?

[Jacob Orlove]

Humans are not affiliated with a given color. Trees most certainly are. I haven't checked, but if there is a single nongreen treefolk in the game, then I'll drop all of my objections (gold cards don't count).

[Marco]

No nongreen Treefolk and only one gold Treefolk (from Apocalypse)...

 

[Bram]

I'm well aware of that, but I ask you to reread my explanation.

This is nowhere as extreme as making a Green Goblin or a White Zombie (god, these jokes are afwul...)

The enchantment recursion thing is not in flavor for green, so the creature type would have to change, and with it the name, which is not something I'm prepared to do.

I'm gonna need a better reason that 'Wizards hasn't made a white treefolk yet' before I drop this matter.  

What if I make it a regular tree? I understand Treefolk is a race; but surely we can have a white tree? If it's white, why should have to be Green, so to speak? We even have artifact flowers (Black Lotus!).

[Jacob Orlove]

Okay, let's go over this step by step:

1. Green mana comes from forests. This is a central aspect of the game, on that cannot be disputed.

2. Forests are composed of trees. I don't think you can really debate this one either.

3. Ergo, trees are, in the magic "universe", the very essence of the color green.

sub argument:

4. Treefolk are animate trees.

5. Ergo, Treefolk are also the essence of "green".


Having a tree or a treefolk in magic that is not at least partially green makes no sense whatsoever.

[b4r0n]

Because of the controversy surrounding the creature type of "treefolk," perhaps it's best to ditch the original name in favor of a different one, based off a similar anagram: "fixed goblin welder." May I suggest:

Wei Red-Leg, Blind Fox
2W
Legendary Creature - Fox Cleric
0/1
T: Choose target enchantment a player controls and target enchantment card in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player sacrifices the enchantment in play, then puts the other enchantment from his or her graveyard into play.

[Bram]

Brilliance.

Clock?

[Jacob Orlove]

Are the Kitsune creature type fox? If so, then I support that new name/creature type 100%

My comments about power level still stand, though.

[Bram]

yeah, yeah, OK. The rest of it needs to tsay like the last version (2WW). I'll adapt the current wording.

[Bram]

Clock.