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Author Topic: [Report] 7th Place in RI with U/R Fish 5/16  (Read 1706 times)
JDawg13
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« on: May 20, 2004, 01:09:36 pm »

Here's a tournament report for the U/R Fish deck that I've been playing for only a few weeks, as I only recently came up with the cards to build it.  I tried to make up for lack of testing with play skill, but I know this is not the best way to go about things.  At least I won't have to worry about that next time, now that I have the deck built.  Anyway, here's the build I ran at BBRI (Baseball Cards of Rhode Island) on Sunday:

Mana:
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus

Men:
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Gorilla Shaman

Draw:
4 Curiosity
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall

Counters:
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
1 Misdirection

Utility:
3 Null Rod
1 Fire/Ice
1 Time Walk
1 Stifle

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rack and Ruin (would have liked a third, but couldn't find one)
2 Fire/Ice
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Stifle
1 Misdirection

It's a fairly standard build, except for the Black Lotus in place of the Mox Sapphire from most builds. Smmenen has been advocating its use, and I agree that it gives a tremendous tempo boost when used early.  Every time I drew it in my opening hand I was glad to see it. I really recommend running the Lotus over the Sapphire, it really is better.  And now, on to the report.

Round 1 vs. Randy w/Control Slaver

Game 1:
He wins the die roll and chooses to play. He drops an early Goblin Welder. We get in a mini-counter war over something relatively unimportant. He sees nothing but Goblin Welders and mana all game, so I roll fairly easily with a growing number of men.

Game 2:
Of considerable note is that I sided out my Null Rods because all I saw was Welders and a Mox, so I wasn't sure if they'd be that useful. I brought in 2 Sword of Fire and Ice, and they ended up winning me the game.
He gets early mana screw, which I make worse with a Wasteland on his only land. I drop some guys and start the beats. I try a Sword and he Forces. My guys continue the beats. He starts to get back in it with a Welder, and Pentavus in the yard. I draw and play the second Sword. He welds in Pentavus, but is tapped out, so I equip the Sword and swing in for the kill in the air. Funny how bad sideboard decisions sometimes work out.

Games: 2-0
Matches: 1-0

Round 2 vs. Rob w/Control Slaver

Game 1:
He wins the die roll and chooses to play. He drops an early Welder which hits me a couple times. I Force something, he Forces something, nothing really too important. I get down some guys and drop a Rod to start applying the pressure. He plays a Gorilla Shaman, which could matter in a couple turns if he gets up to 5 mana. Here's where I make a rules mistake that almost costs me the game. I play something, he Drains, I Misdirect the Drain onto the Misdirection. I mistakenly tell him the Drain gives him 5 mana on his next turn. The way it actually works is that the Misdirection resolves after changing the target of the Drain, so the Misdirection is no longer a legal target for the Drain, leaving you with no mana from the Drain. Anyway, he uses his mana to eat my Null Rod with the Shaman, Welds in a Mindslaver and uses it. Thankfully, I don't have a lot for him to do, and he doesn't have another artifact to keep up the Slaving, so my guys do him in.

Game 2:
My notes aren't very good on this game, but it looks like he Forced something early, and then didn't do a whole lot after that. My guys quickly overwhelm him and he dies without much fight.
Rob was a really nice guy and we continued to talk throughout the day about his build and my build and the merits of each. We traded a bit and wished each other luck in the future.

Games: 4-0
Matches: 2-0

Round 3 vs. Brian w/ R/G/U Aggro

Game 1:
He wins the die roll and chooses to play. We get in a several turn long swap of killing each others' lands with Wastelands and Strip Mines. He eventually starts dropping threats and Rancoring them. A Rancored Gorilla Shaman hits me once, I Fire it next turn. He plays a Kird Ape and drops the Rancor on it. I can't find any answers to the 4/3 guy and I die.

Game 2:
I keep a hand with no blue mana, but has Library and Wasteland. I drop Library and hope he doesn't have a way to kill it. He Strips it. I lay Wasteland and pass the turn. He drops Land, Mox, Lotus, Serendib Efreet, River Boa. I sit there helpless. He lays a Rancor on the Boa and beats for 7. My life total goes 20, 13, 6, 0. No chance.

Games: 4-2
Matches: 2-1

Round 4 vs. Mark w/FCG

Game 1:

He wins the roll and chooses to play. He mulls to 6 and decides to keep even though he looks disappointed with his hand. I make his land-light hand even worse with a Wasteland. The two creatures he tries to play in the game I Force. He slowly dies to some men and his Mana Crypt.

Game 2:

He drops an early Piledriver which hits me for 1 three consecutive turns. I find no solutions, surprisingly. He eventually drops a Warchief, which I Force, he REBs. I die shortly afterwards.

Game 3:

He again drops an early Piledriver and it hits me by twice by itself. At the same time I'm poking him for two a turn with a Cloud and Spiketail. He then throws down a Warchief and swings. I block the Warchief with a Factory which survives by pumping itself before damage. I then Fire the Piledriver and eventually get down enough guys to finish the job.

Games: 6-3
Matches: 3-1

Round 5 vs. my friend Steve w/Ravager Affinity

Game 1:

I win the die roll and drop a first turn Gorilla Shaman. He frowns and discards a card on his turn. He did so in hopes of being able to explode all on one turn later. I lay a land and a Null Rod and he scoops.

Game 2:

I see no blue mana until like fourth or fifth turn, but by then it's too late and I die soon after.

Game 3:

He drops an early Myr Enforcer which knocks me to 11 before I'm able to find a Rack and Ruin to kill it and a Sol Ring. At some point I resolved a Rod thinking it was game over, but he responded by saccing a Lotus for red and Overloading the Rod when it resolved. I'm able to apply some beats with a combination of my Mishra's Factory and his Mana Crypt to knock him to 5. He then drops Ravager, I drop Rod, he responds by making Ravager a 6/6, it hits me once to drop me to 4. I'm able to kill it with a triple block, but he modulars the counters to an Ornithopter and I can't topdeck a Rack and Ruin, so I die.

Games: 7-5
Matches: 3-2

Round 6 vs. Ray with Sui Black

I need to win this match to have a shot at Top 8, so when I find out I am playing against Sui Black, I realize I have a very good shot.

Game 1:

He wins the die roll and plays first. He drops Swamp, Ritual, Hollow Specter. After taking a second to see what it does I Force it. I lay a land a pass the turn. He does nothing of significance for several consecutive turns, as I slowly ping him with a Cloud of Faeries. He resolves a Juggernaut at some point, but it dies when it attacks into a Mishra's Factory. I then proceed to beat him to death a growing number of little men.

Game 2:

He gets slightly mana screwed this game and I am able to Force two key early spells. He is able to remove a couple of my men with a Smother and a Contagion, but it simply doesn't matter, as he is never able to recover from the early game tempo I gained by countering his threats while playing my own. A single Grim Lavamancer does him 7 points of damage, and when joined by a Faerie Conclave, the game ends.

I have to give Ray a lot of credit as he has only been playing the game for a little over six months and is only 13 years old. Competing at a high level in a power tournament is something for the young guy to be proud of.

Games: 9-5
Matches: 4-2

I now wait anxiously to find out if I made Top 8 or not. I eventually find out that I'm sitting in a decent sixth place after six rounds of Swiss. I'm up against Mixin' Mike Daniels with Control Slaver for a shot at Top 4.

Quarterfinals:

Game 1:

I start with some early pressure from a Gorilla Shaman, Cloud of Faeries and Spiketail Hatchling. A second Spiketail and a Grim Lavamancer join forces to apply serious pressure. He attempts an Ancestral Recall leaving three lands untapped. I know he has a Yawgmoth's Will in hand as he had been looking through his graveyard on each of the two previous turns, so I try to make him unable to cast the Will and sacrifice my two Spiketail Hatchlings to make his Ancestral Cost two more. Unfortunately for me, he draws into Black Lotus, uses it to cast his will and he's off to the races. He Time Walks, plays a Goblin Welder and casts his Ancestral again. On his next turn, he welds in a Pentavus which puts me on the defensive. I try to race him with my guys, but his Pentavus and Welder kill me with him sitting at a mere 1 life.

Game 2:

I again start with some early threats and Force one of his early spells. He quickly deals with my guys with a Fire and then Tinkers out a Pentavus. A Pentavite token hits me once, and the Pentavus hits me the next turn to put me at 8. He then gets held off by a bunch of my little guys. He gets down a Goblin Welder which I Fire. I eventually Rack and Ruin away the Pentavus and a mana producer. I drop a Null Rod and start beating down with a Mishra's Factory. I run out of cards in my graveyard, so I cannot bring him in range of a lethal swing, so my Factory swings in to knock him to 2. I have out two Grim Lavamancers but only one red source, so when he resolves a Platinum Angel that he pulled straight off the top of his library, I cannot deal with it. I knock him to 0 with the Factory but cannot kill the Angel. It swings in to bring me to 4. I pray for a topdecked land, but don't get it, and the Angel kills me.

I gotta give Mike credit, he played very well and knew the matchup well enough to best me. He deserved the victory, which I graciously accept and wish him luck in the semifinals.

According to tiebreakers I ended up in 7th, but because of how long our match went (almost an hour I think) I ended up with the 5th place prize as everyone else took their prize and went home. A foil Urza's Saga Forest and a full day of fun, competitive Magic made me happy. Even better was getting to stay to watch my boy Steve win two great matches to win the Mox Pearl for his first piece of power.

Overall, I had a great time and look forward to returning to BBRI for their next power tourney.

Props:
BBRI for holding such a fun event.
All of my opponents for being great sports and never taking a loss too seriously.
The judge for being a really fun guy to have host an event.
The local pizza shop for selling $5 large pizzas.
My boy Steve for winning the whole thing with Affinity, a deck that not enough people are taking seriously.

Slops:
Scheduling conflicts. Three T1 tournaments on the same day in the same area sucks, but such is the nature of schedules.
Voidmage Prodigy, for being the suck all day.  Considering dropping these for two more Mox Monkeys.
The weird computer errors we got all day, like the guy the computer wouldn't let drop for some reason.
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PucktheCat
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 02:29:30 pm »

Quote
It's a fairly standard build, except for the Black Lotus in place of the Mox Sapphire from most builds. Smmenen has been advocating its use, and I agree that it gives a tremendous tempo boost when used early. Every time I drew it in my opening hand I was glad to see it. I really recommend running the Lotus over the Sapphire, it really is better. And now, on to the report.


Why run the Lotus over the Sapphire?  Wouldn't running it over an Island or perhaps a Conclave make more sense?  Heck, I think I would cut Library before I cut Sapphire.

Just because the deck wants Lotus doesn't mean it wants Sapphire any less.

Leo
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JDawg13
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2004, 03:22:40 pm »

I don't particularly enjoy running any more than one artifact mana source in a deck that wants to gain tempo over its opponent in any way it can.  If I'm casting a Null Rod off a Sapphire, I don't gain myself any tempo over my opponent.  The Sapphire might be nice to see when I don't have a Null Rod in hand or in play, but any other time I'd rather see a land.  I think that reason is enough to cut the Sapphire, but I'll test it more to see for sure.
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jazzykat
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2004, 04:01:11 pm »

I am surprise no one brought it up, but using a lotus to cast a null rod vs. welder decks may be a self defeating proposition as they can easily weld out your rod for a lotus. (This does assume that they can resolve and keep a welder a live for a turn).
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The Priory
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 04:41:47 pm »

Well, I was assuming that Lotus was something you wanted in the deck.  Whether you want it or not is another question.

Perhaps a thread should be started on this.

I know PTW and the other originals of the Fish build agreed fairly early that Lotus wasn't wanted becuase of the permanent mana argument and so on.  The metagame and fish itself has changed a lot since then, though.

If I played Gay/r tommorow I would probably not run Lotus because I trust PTW's insights into this archetype more than anyone's, but I do think I will test the Lotus on my own, because I trust my own testing even more  Very Happy

Leo
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JDawg13
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2004, 04:44:07 pm »

Yes, this interaction with Goblin Welder can be a bit of a problem.  So, instead of playing the Null Rod off the Black Lotus, I'll just play some other tempo-advantageous stuff, like a dude or two with a Curiosity on one of them.  Then I'll do my best to keep the Welder off the board, play the Rod, and try to finish the game quickly.  For sideboarding, if I'm really concerned about the Welder/Lotus/Rod interaction, I'll sideboard out the Black Lotus so it won't be a problem.  Or, I'll just let my opponent bring my Lotus back for me at the cost of losing my Null Rod.  Getting a second use out of my Black Lotus while my opponent uses up an entire turn just to get rid of the Null Rod could be the most tempo advantageous thing I could hope for, so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to lose my Rod.
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JEMpointFIVE
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2004, 07:16:56 pm »

That looks just like my build from Waterbury Razz

Now, to ask some questions...

Quote
Of considerable note is that I sided out my Null Rods because all I saw was Welders and a Mox, so I wasn't sure if they'd be that useful.

Are you serious???
Never side out Null Rod against artifact-based decks, especially slaver or stax.  You have one other artifact in your deck, Black Lotus, which should probably be Mox Sapphire (i'll get to that in a minute).  What are the chances you will have another artifact in your graveyard with Welder on their side?  Null Rod is good against Slaver.  Period.  

Next, the Mox Sapphire/Black Lotus dilemma.
People play Black Lotus because it gives them explosive starts and fast mana.  Fish isn't a very explosive deck.  It doesn't kill very fast at all.  I suppose the best use for it would be turn 1 Null Rod/creature-or-Standstill vs. some sort of artifact deck.  Since Mox stays there to provide mana later, i think it's better.

Finally, the sideboard choices in round 1.  I haven't tried Sword vs. Slaver, I wasn't sure if it'd be good.  But i STRONGLY recommend siding in Fire/Ice and Rack and Ruin vs. them.  Rack is pretty obvious, but the Fire/Ice is great vs. Welder.  

I played fish again in Somers, CT on the 16th.  I went 3-1, then ID'd round 5 thinking I was definitely in T8, but Matt did some random tie-breaking method where your game record is more important than your opponent's match win record Sad.  Oh well :/.  

GL in the future
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JEMpointFIVE
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2004, 07:19:41 pm »

sry about that massive quote, i'm a n00b :[
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Why do birds fly south for the winter?



Because it's too far to walk!?/!!!11!

                                       -Cracker Jack Bag
JDawg13
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2004, 07:24:49 pm »

Oh, I realize 100% that I made a mistake in sideboarding in that matchup.  I just made a judgment call based on what I saw first game, and although it was a wrong call for the matchup, I just wanted to comment that my mistake actually helped in winning.  Every other time I ran up against Slavery I sideboarded exactly as you say, Fire/Ices and Rack and Ruins, I just made a mistake that time as I wasn't 100% certain what I was playing against.

I stand by the fact that Black Lotus belongs in the deck.  I wouldn't have traded seeing it for a Mox Sapphire any of the times I drew it.  I know Fish isn't supposed to kill early, but the Lotus is amazing at giving tempo advantage in the early game.  This fits in perfectly with the tempo-based theme of Fish's gameplan.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2004, 07:36:21 pm »

Re: lotus in Fish:

Thank you for being smart:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=7292
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Mixing Mike
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2004, 08:45:53 pm »

Gotta hate not drawing two red mana sources.  Good game though, wish I could see that every time I play people.  I actually had the Will/Lotus in my hand, and I was debating if your Spiketails were going to effect it to much.  By the way, you can't pump factories with Null Rod out, lol.

I ended up making third/fourth overall for those who care, losing to ravager (due to a lack of Shamans on my decklist), and taking home a signed Meddling Mage.  I'll assure you they've found their place right when I got home.  I've tried to write a report like 300000 times, but my computers sucks like that.  Oh well, another day....
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