Beguile

[Marco]

One-shot black artifact/enchantment removal a la Dystopia:

Beguile
1B
Sorcery
An opponent chooses a nonland permanent he or she controls. You may pay B and 1 life. If you do, that opponent chooses a nonland permanent he or she controls not already chosen for Beguile. You may repeat this process any number of times. That opponent sacrifices the last chosen permanent.

(Based on the Oracle template for Forgotten Lore.)

[Marco]

Current Wording:

Tyrannize
2B
Sorcery
An opponent chooses an artifact or creature he or she controls. You may pay B and 1 life. If you do, that opponent chooses an artifact or creature he or she controls not already chosen for Tyrannize. You may repeat this process any number of times. That opponent sacrifices the last chosen artifact or creature.

[Ephraim]

In Type 1, this would probably be fine. I think it may be too powerful in other formats, though. This almost inevitably disrupts your opponent's first play, if you get this early. Granted, you've used up your first play casting this, but I still think it's a little too strong. Costing it at seems more appropriate. This is, after all, better than Misguided Rage, which costs . Semi-targeted permanent destruction should not cost less than semi-random permanent destruction.

[Jacob Orlove]

But rage can hit lands.  I think this is probably fair, although you might have to just change it to "artifact or creature".

[Marco]

Good points. I think the fact that the opponent can't choose lands for Beguile may be a benefit. Otherwise, the opponent would just choose his lands and leave the good stuff (artifacts, creatures, enchantments) until you run out of black mana or have spent too much life.

I'm not completely opposed to raising the casting cost to 2B, but don't you think 1B is expensive enough? You want this in the early game so that it can hit a juicy target without too much of a black mana/life investment (before your opponent has lots of permanents to chose from)...

[Ephraim]

My primary concern is that you'll be able to cast it when they only have one or two legal targets.

[Marco]

The question is, would it be too good (broken) if you can cast Beguile when your opponent only has one or two legal targets?

[Malhavoc]

This card will let destroy enchantments and non-creature artifacts, which is something black shouldn't do (particularly enchantments). I would change it making the opponent choose only among creatures (or maybe even lands, maybe even artifacts, but definetely no enchantments), or changing its color and casting cost to something like BG. Dystopia can destroy any permanent, but only green and white ones, which is quite fair, being those black's enemies.

[Marco]

Bueller?

[luitzen]

I think you should have them pay two life instead of paying one life and .

I realize this is the CCF, but I couldn't resist.  Spelling and grammar updated.  You're a bad, bad man.
- Kowal[/color]

[Jacob Orlove]

B and 1 life is MUCH better than 2 life. I still think this should be "creature or artifact" instead of "nonland permanent", though.

[Marco]

I would rather make this 2B or even 2BB than change it from "nonland permanent" to "creature or artifact". Black isn't really supposed to be able to deal with artifacts either (or so I've been told...)

[Jacob Orlove]

Black has a few cards that can destroy artifacts, and if it's a conditional sacrifice, that makes it even more in flavor.

Forcing people to sacrifice their enchantments just isn't a black effect, though.

[Marco]

Forcing people to sacrifice their enchantments just isn't a black effect, though.

Other than Dystopia.

Black does make players sacrifice creatures, lands, and sometimes artifacts.

There is an exception to every rule, but if everyone (or a proportional representation) feels Beguile can't break the enchantment rule, even at such a high cost (2BB to start, and an additional B and 1 life for each other nonland permanent a player has), so be it.

[Jacob Orlove]

I believe that Wizards acknowledged dystopia as a mistake, but in any case, it's from 1996--not exactly the modern age of magic.

But if people disagree with me, please say so.

[Nefarias]

No, I definitely have to agree with Jacob on this one. First, making it 2BB would make it so terrible. Second, it is just totally out of flavor.

Incidently, why are you so opposed to removing the ability to get enchantments? From a rationale standpoint, this really wouldn't decrease the power of the card that much, as there are few problematic enchantments (or at least few that matter after the first turn they're out: Bargain, Necro, et. al.)

I think if you look at this as "Ooh, a halfway decent way for black to get rid of artifacts" instead, what you've got is a really cool card.

[Marco]

Eh. Change made.

[Jacob Orlove]

Why is this called Beguile? That sounds like a blue control magic variant.

[Marco]

be·guile:
To deceive by guile; delude.
To take away from by or as if by guile; cheat: a disease that has beguiled me of strength.

You are talking your opponent into sacrificing his artifact or creature. If he resists, you will persist (pay B and 1 life). Eventually you will sway him.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's totally blue. Black would never try to trick by guile when it could take by force.

[Marco]

I don't know, black doesn't always take by force. Black cards have names like pact and bargain. But, what other card name would you suggest?

[Matt]

Yes but those are bargains with dark powers. Never your opponent.

[Marco]

I'm taking suggestions for a new name.

[Marco]

Change made.

Tyrannize, v.

-To subject to arbitrary, oppressive, or tyrannical treatment.
-To exercise absolute power.
-To act the tyrant; to exercise arbitrary power; to rule with unjust and oppressive severity; to exercise power others not permitted by law or required by justice, or with a severity not necessary to the ends of justice and government.
-To rule or exercise power over (somebody) in a cruel and autocratic manner.

[Marco]

24 hour clock.

[Matt]

Tyrrany still seems like a black thing. While blue does want power, it doesn't really care to rule. That's really a black/white thing.

[Jacob Orlove]

Tyrrany still seems like a black thing. While blue does want power, it doesn't really care to rule. That's really a black/white thing.

But the card is black. That's why "Beguile" was a problem to begin with. I really like the new name.

[Matt]

That's what I get for being several weeks out of the loop. My apologies, this card can go ahead.

[Matt]

Closed and adeed.[/color]

[Ephraim]

Maybe added, but definitely not closed. ^_^