[Discussion]B/G Dragon

[Bulls on Parade]

It's disheartening to see such a lull in the discussion of this extremely viable archetype lately- right now it seems better than ever. It still trashes aggro, still disrupts and outraces other combo, and still maintains it's efficacy in control matchups. It's certainly one of the best options in a 5-proxy budget environment, or for those players who can afford to buy second-tier cards like Bazaars, but don't want to commit enough yet to buy power.

http://www.theabyss.biz/2004/winners/winnersgenova05.htm

Here is a European tournament where a similar deck won, although it's really the only major appearance the archetype has made. I'm amazed by the volume of players who are willing to shamelessly netdeck U/B Dragon because they're told it's better but immediately shoot down this deck, and I think this has something major to do with the lack of showing's the deck has made.


Anyways, on to the list:


4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Sliver Queen
1 Ambassador Laquatus

4 Duress
3 Unmask
3 Xantid Swarm

4 Animate Dead
4 Necromancy
1 Dance of the Dead
4 Buried Alive
1 Entomb

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Spoils of the Vault
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

4 Dark Ritual
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Swamp
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

Sideboard cards:
Null Rod
Oxidize
Naturalize
Plated Slagwurm
Verdant Force
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Tormod's Crypt
Phyrexian Negator
Pernicious Deed

These are typically the cards I bring to a tournament and construct my sideboard on site, based on what I see floating around. However, if I were to take the deck into an unknown metagame tomorrow, I'd most likely go with:

3 Null Rod
3 Oxidize
2 Plated Slagwurm (although, running a 3rd fat creature is definitely solid)
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Tormod's Crypt

The Null Rods used to be maindeck material over the Xantids, with my reasoning being that Null Rod is just better vs. more decks, because every deck runs Moxen. However, this thinking is obviously flawed from the start- although Slaver is becoming more and more prominent all the time, it's an easier deck to beat game 1 than is GermBus Keeper. Although I name specific decks as examples, I think this goes to show the concept I'm trying to convey. I pack hate for what I know is tough, because in many matchups neither card will matter for better or worse anyway. The other choices are really self explanatory.

For a brief overview of what I'm really hoping to discuss, I'll just point out the hardest "axis" of matchups: Prison. Aggro is a cake walk, other combo matchups are in your favor, and control/aggro-control matchups are winnable, but Prison is always going to be there, keeping combo decks honest. I used to sideboard Verdant Force over Slagwurms to beat Stax, and even sideboarded a Woodripper at one point. Null Rods usually help (obviously), but I can't seem to pull the win/loss ratio as much towards Dragon's favor as I'd like to. Before Darksteel (Trinisphere) I really thought the mtachup was shaping up too..    Is it meant to stay this way? Any thoughts on this issue would be great.

For players playing in 5-proxy tournaments with no expensive cards (Bazaars and/or power) it's obviously best to proxy the 4 Bazaars, and most likely the Jet. Although it seems obvious at first to replace Emerald and Lotus with Elvish Spirit Guide, one card my testing has proven solid as a budget combo accelerator is Ancient Tomb.

I've been playing this almost exclusively for almost 2 years, and I think that right now it stands to gain more than ever. I really hope this thread sparks some decent discussion of this better than decent archetype.

edit: link fixed

[defector]

I like Dragon as well, I feel better with the b/u/g version with all the green in the board.  I don't see how you can run 4 bazaar and not run 4 squee.  Without blue thsi is the draw engine.  Spoils scares me in that there are a lot of mindslaver out there waiting to name "Contested Cliffs" or whatever that horrible land card is. Anyway, part of the beauty fo thsi deck is the variety of it, I personally feel that 3 Compulsion are necessary, but you are faster this way.
defector

[paradigm]

The thing this deck lacks due to lack of blue are consistent draw and disruption.

Bazaar is useful primarily because of Squee, to be able to use it every turn. Otherwise, there's just not enough useful cards to discard. Lacking Brainstorm and friends is not wholly negated by Spoils, which makes you more vulnerable to aggro-control (you're not that fast of a deck) and the Buried Alive should really be Squees for the purpose of Bazaar. By drawing more with the Bazaar you'll get the Dragons in the grave (you only need one Dragon and Bazaar to go off). As noted, Slaver + Spoils =/= good times.

Lack of Compulsion also hurts here primarily because it allows you to have a counter up to avoid massive mana burn due to Purge and it's also a draw-discard engine.

The reason why Force of Will (and thus blue) are so necessary is because you're tapping out to force through your threats. Duress and Force are quite compliments to each other - as they also prevent your opponent's key cards. Unmask fails here because its effects are more inconsistent, it's not strong at any point in the game the way Force is - it also doesn't prevent nasty topdecks. In addition, Unmasking a Coffin Purge is not good times.

Not to say green is bad, but that blue is necessary. Green adds many wonderful things, but cannot stand to the strength that blue adds. That in mind, BUG Dragon seems to be the way to go. Blue adds better draw and disruption.

[BreathWeapon]

First off, B/g Dragon is simply superior to B/u/g Dragon in the absence of Prison. People seriously need to get over Squee, because he isn't as good with out Compulsion and B/g Dragon has no intentions of seeing a middle game. If you want to include Squees, go ahead.  However, you have to realize that he isn't necessary. The moment Drain Slaver outshines Shop Slaver B/g Dragon will be a wrecking ball, because B/g Dragon's greatest problem is Chalice of the Void. If your using the full set of 8 2cc Animates, Chalice for 2 wins. Supported by Slaveries FoW, Chalice comes down on this deck like a brick wall. When Trinistax was the Prison deck of Choice, the games came down to 50/50 stale mates Pre/Post board, but with FoW Slavery simply has the edge game 1. Games 2 and 3 allow you to board in Necromancey, Null Rod, Pernicious Deed and Oxidize to fighter Shop Slavery, but it never seems to come together for me as often as I would like.

Some minor points,

Necromancy isn't worth the significant loss of Gold Fish speed. This deck isn't interested in playing the waiting game and cashing in on inevitability, because with out FoW Prison will shut you down.

Unmask/Duress aren't exceptable disruption for any Combo deck. You can't stop Root Maze, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere and Blood Moon from hitting the Table no matter how hard you try. MD Swarms are the way to go, because this deck "should" be seeing play in Proxie 5 where Shop Slavery is non existant for the most part.

Moxon are debatable over ESG, I board Null Rod for its tempo advantages vs Powered Contrl decks and its anti-Crypt and anti-Slaver goodness. If you don't plan on implementing the Rod, use Lotus, Petal, Jet, Emerald, (Ruby), Chrome and Cypt because the deck craves On Color Acceleration more than anything else, the Crypt just happens to have extremely good synergy with Buried Alive. Sol Ring will cost you crucial Tempo, so be sure not to use it under any circumstances. Mox Diamond is a possible inclusion, but I have no real experience with it.

Adding Red is a serious Option to combat Shop Slaver, and it gives you the "other" Dragon, REB, Rack&Ruin, Artifact Mutation and Gorilla Shaman.  Boarding 4 Mutations and 4 Shamans can really turn the Shop Slaver match around.

I've been behind this deck for awhile now, and I have absolutely no clue why it doesn't have a stronger following. It mauls Shopless environments.

[Sytupal]

First off, B/g Dragon is simply superior to B/u/g Dragon in the absence of Prison.

Huh?  B/g dragon does not look too fondly at stifle, force of will, misdirection(if a xantid or win condition is in the grave),  or coffin purge.  Not to mention all of the cards that are more conditional.  

Cards such as Daze usually cause you issues because you are attempting the win as soon as possible. that means, as soon as 2 mana is open.  GAT kicks the living crap out of B/g.  Unmasks and Duress' are simply not enough disruption for all the possible hate that decks like this have.  

You need the drawing power that Bazaar/Squee gives you from B/u/g Dragon in order for you to seriously compete with blue based control decks.

[TheAdvantage]

misdirection(if a xantid or win condition is in the grave)

Last I heard, you choose a target upon the animate's resolution.

Cards such as Daze...

I'm not disagreeing with anything in particular that you bring up, but is GAT really still running Daze??  I'm not a huge GAT guy, but the only time I like to be returning Islands is when I'm about to draw 2 cards.

[cssamerican]

Huh? B/g dragon does not look too fondly at stifle, force of will, misdirection(if a xantid or win condition is in the grave), or coffin purge. Not to mention all of the cards that are more conditional.

 
Sytupal, I don't think B/G is strictly superior to U/b or U/b/g Dragon, but I do think it is a viable deck and shouldn't be ignored because people perceive the other versions as strictly superior. However, last time I checked all versions of Dragon don't look fondly at Stifle, Force of Will, or Coffin Purge. So that is a pretty weak argument.

I do agree with Breathweapon that this deck is much better than people give it credit. We don't agree on the exact build (I have picked this up from previous post on this topic), but unlike other dragon decks B/G is much more concerned with winning now than drawing cards off Squee, so the Squees are not as important to the deck.

In the build I play Bazaar is nothing more (But this is A LOT) than a free uncountable discard outlet for animation targets, and a way to cycle through the deck to find the win condition when going off. In most cases I don't even play it until I am ready to combo out.

I know some people are scared of Spoils of the Vault and I can't figure out quite why. This is the most broken tutor I have had the chance to play with as a four of.  (The other good tutors were all restricted before I started playing Magic) You should never get caught with one in hand by a Mindslaver! It is an instant that only cost that says if this resolves you probably will win the game if not this turn, next turn.


To the people that doubt this deck's viability:
If I said you can play a combo deck that in most cases is the fastest deck at the table, can play solid disruption, laughs at Blood Moon and Null Rod, and has a secondary win condition (Caller of the Claw) that gets around most game one permanant based hate. You would be begging to know what deck I was talking about.


Now, actual comments about this archetype:
I do think Necromancy is a must simply because of CotV. Gold fish means nothing if you can't win, and one mana isn't that huge in a deck that has this much acceleration.

This brings me to the point of the mana base. I run a bit more acceleration in by build than the one shown here. This is my current mana base:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Swamp
4 Elvish Spirit Guide (On color and uneffected by Null Rod and CotV. It also happens to suprise Daze players as well, Sytupal)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal (Rather this than Mox Emerald because it can make Black mana too)
1 Black Lotus

Caller of the Claw is much better than Sliver Queen in this deck. It gets around Damping Matrix and Root Maze. This deck doesn't run Force of Will so having a pitchable win condition is meaningless. You maindeck Xandid Swarms to take care of instant removal, so the "This soaks up tartgeted removal" argument is a little weak as well.

I personally beleive Unmask is pretty weak in this deck, and I have tried it countless times. I always find myself in the situation where I can't remove a card from my hand because I need that card to go off. It might be better in a version that actually maindecked Squees since you could draw additional pitch cards, but if you don't maindeck Squee than I wouldn't maindeck Unmask.

The more I played this deck the less I liked Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor. Demonic Tutor always seemed slow and Vampiric only made me happy if I had a Bazaar, in all other cases I wished it was a Demonic Consulation or Spoils of the Vault. Which brings me to the question about the build at the begining of this thread. Where is Demonic Consultation???

[FreddieNDB]

Can somone explain to me how B/G Dragon is good in a 5-proxy environment when the most widely used 5-proxy decks are Landstill and Fish?

I can look at my Landstill decklist and I can change the wording on most of the cards to "remove target opponents permanents from the game" and then post sideboard, its even worse.

[Kowal]

People that advocate cutting blue have never had to play the long game with Dragon.

Part of the reason Dragon is good is because if it can't simply win early (for example, if the Keeper player has or is bluffing Swords) it can sit there and bazaar in to the perfect hand with which to go off.  The perfect hand usually consists of an animate, two forces, two blue cards, and either another force/blue card or necromancy.  Without blue, the best you can do is try to cast multiple necromancies, or try to destroy their hand.  There's a couple problems with this.

Much more mana intensive.  Dragon runs very few mana sources.

Control of the stack > control of the hand.  This is a large contribution to why suicide is terrible.  It loses to the topdeck.  The situation is a little bit different here, granted, but it's still the same principle.

I'm in the camp that says a blue splash is, in fact, strictly better.

[cssamerican]

Game 1:
Turn 1
Play Swamp
Play Duress removing FoW or Daze
Remove Elvish Spirit Guide from hand
Play Xantid Swarm

Turn 2
Attack with Xanid Swarm
Play Bazaar discard Dragon
Animate Dragon

Game 2:
Turn 1
Play Swamp or Bayou
Play Duress or Xantid Swarm

Turn 2
Attack with Xantid Swarm if you played one
Play Bazaar discard fatty -Verdant Force or Plated Slagwurm
Animate Fatty

Even though these are optimal cases, I think they show that any lapse in control is big enough for you to lose.

I feel this can be an easy or bad matchup depending on the person pioliting the control deck. Decent players make mistakes (Less than optimal plays) during the course of a game, and because of the small window of oportunity needed by the Dragon player, one less than optimal play is usally all that is needed for the Dragon player to win. On the other hand, excellent control players will be much more difficult because they will not give you those windows of oportunity. 90% of players playing these deck fall into the "Decent Player" category, so it usally isn't that bad of a match-up

Edit: Kowal, I understand where you are comming from, but it is rare in which you don't have a way to peek at some hand via Duress, play a Swarm, or animate a Swarm. So instant based removal isn't as bad as people think.

[dicemanx]

Sigh, I guess I'll repeat myself again, because it seems like info gets lost when months pass by and the archetype isn't discussed.

Dragon is a more consistent deck, and performs better against its most problematic match-ups (control and Fish), if it uses cards that support its draw engines. This means that splashing U is necessary, not because you can run FoW, but because you can run cards like Compulsion, Lim-Dul's Vault, and Intuition. Also, any suggestion of cutting Squees in BUG is outright madness. I can see the argument for cutting Squees in B/g (which I suggested myself initially) because B/g is more balls-to-the-wall, but there's a problem:

Going with a balls-to-the-wall approach is weak, because it doesn't improve any of your problem match-ups. This is because all of the problematic hate is 0-cc or 1-cc, which you cannot outrace with B/g.

B/g Dragon is at best a 2-3 turn goldfish deck. BUG typically goldfishes a turn later. This difference is largely irrelevant, because BUG is still faster than anything else out there except for belcher and draw7 (match-ups that you can do little about pre-SB). So, because its extemely difficult to outrace hate if you cannot go off until turn 2 or later, it's far, far better to focus more on the draw engines so that you can allow yourself the opportunity to overwhelm hate by building card advantage.

Don't worry, many of us know that B/g is a very potent deck, but there's a reason why we stick to BUG. However, if you're the type of person that always combos out turn two with Duress/Xantid back up with B/g, might I suggest trying the casino instead? Much more profitable.


Other random notes:

1. Caller in the main deck is weak. Why waste a slot dealing with phantom threats? At *worst* you will draw the game if you happen to face a Matrix or Root Maze. I mean, come on, Root Maze MD? I thought we already established that this card was too weak. MD Matrices are extremely rare as well. If you want to run a secondary win condition, I'd still go with Queen because of point #2.

2.

You maindeck Xandid Swarms to take care of instant removal, so the "This soaks up tartgeted removal" argument is a little weak as well.

It's not as weak as you think. Using up an animate on Swarm still leaves you in a position where you have to draw another animate to win. Animating a Queen gets around this kind of problem. Furthermore, if you expect Fish decks, they might run a lot of pingers which make Xantids useless. Regardless, I'd rather stick to just one win condition anyways, but it's not because of this animate baiting issue.

[BreathWeapon]

Can somone explain to me how B/G Dragon is good in a 5-proxy environment when the most widely used 5-proxy decks are Landstill and Fish?

I can look at my Landstill decklist and I can change the wording on most of the cards to "remove target opponents permanents from the game" and then post sideboard, its even worse.

This may just be regional, but I don't see Landstill in Proxie 5 as much as I see Fish. All of the players that own Manadrain Proxie their missing power and play HULK or Drain Slaver. Fish isn't a terrible match up for the deck, IMO.

@Sytupal, people actually play Daze? I'd be a hell of a lot more scared of Stifle. All of it gets taken care of by MD Swarms, and I have more Animates/Swarms than you have instant speed based removal. GAT has an awful match up vs this deck.

@Cssamerican, I went back and revamped my list a lot with Squees and Necromancey last night. I more or less gave up hope on dealing with Shop Slaver with the board and Animated Angels with out them.

@DicemanX, I'd play Blue to if given the choice in a wide open field. However I don't think the deck's game plan is erroneous by speeding up a turn, atleast not completely. The added speed lets you overcome Belcher and gives you a solid game vs Draw 7. Cutting down the Gold Fish by a turn also reduces the amount of 1cc removal in your opponent's hand, making Duress and Unmask more potent disruption. In my little meta of HULK, Drain Slaver, FCG, Fish and U/G Madness I prefer to run B/g over U/b/g. For me it's a stronger deck, chalk it up to luck if you want to.

[Kowal]

The added speed lets you overcome Belcher and gives you a solid game vs Draw 7.

I think you've gotten that mixed up with Force of Will.

[Evilkin]

One thing I love about B/U or B/U/G Dragon is it's one of the most friendly decks in terms of consistant opening hands.  Quite often I find that I can take 1-2 muligans without sweating it and still pulling out the win.  Mainly because it's not that hard to find a hand with Bazaar/Dragon, Bazaar/Squee, Compulsion/Squee or Intuition with acceleration.  Lots of options to pick from towards which route you want to take to victory.  

I can't see B/G being nearly as forgiving, especially since there is no broken draw engine to fall back on.

[BreathWeapon]

A little off topic, but has anbody played a Scrivener Dragon list? I just bumped into a copy online and it looked like a cool idea. Cunning Wish seemed like a reasonable card to be packing vs Prison.

[goober]

Theres a reason why Islands are considered broken.

[Sytupal]

misdirection(if a xantid or win condition is in the grave)

Last I heard, you choose a target upon the animate's resolution.

Necromancy anyone?

[Mathman07]

The added speed lets you overcome Belcher and gives you a solid game vs Draw 7

No.  Belcher wins on turn 1 or 2.  B/G dragon wins on turn 2 or 3.  This is a BIG difference.  U/B/G dragon at least has FOW and Duress.  Put simply, you lose when belcher goes first (Turn 1 charbelcher).  If you have FoW you don't.  Lucky for you your meta doesn't have other combo.

[Alfred]

With dragon, you will not be playing against belcher every game, in fact, probably not at all (unless it becomes more popular). The reason to play dragon is totally different that the reason to play belcher. Belcher's only tool is that it is extremely fast, wheras dragon is much more resiliant to hate, and isn't shut down by a null rod. Though dragon can be shut down by tormod's crypt, it isn't completely shut down (necromancy tricks, rifilling the grave, 2 win conditions, etc.), plus the fact that it is redundant in the "win" spell catagory (animate spells), so it is much less likely to be shut down by a simple FoW. Also, from what I gleaned from Smmenen's Tog vs. Belcher report, dragon does not have to mulligan as aggresively, and does not flat out lose when disrupted.

I agree that if your area is filled with combo, dragon with blue is probably superior to a non-blue deck, if your area is combo-light G/B might be a better choice.

[dicemanx]

In an area filled with combo, I'd stay away from Dragon altogether. Dragon is more suited for metas that are control and aggro, and especially in the control decks are mainly Hulk or GAT

[Bulls on Parade]

First off, great replies- for the most part.

People that advocate cutting blue have never had to play the long game with Dragon.

Part of the reason Dragon is good is because if it can't simply win early (for example, if the Keeper player has or is bluffing Swords) it can sit there and bazaar in to the perfect hand with which to go off.  The perfect hand usually consists of an animate, two forces, two blue cards, and either another force/blue card or necromancy.  Without blue, the best you can do is try to cast multiple necromancies, or try to destroy their hand.  There's a couple problems with this.

I'm in the camp that says a blue splash is, in fact, strictly better.

Perhaps we play the deck entirely differently, although I can't really see much room for personal preference in playstyle, but I have played the late game with B/G Dragon, and I have won the late game with B/G Dragon. Granted, it doesn't happen nearly as often as the blue splash deck does, but at the same time the game (obviously) hardly ever progresses past turn 4.

misdirection(if a xantid or win condition is in the grave)

Last I heard, you choose a target upon the animate's resolution.

Necromancy anyone?

Oracle Text:
You may play Necromancy any time you could play an instant. If you do, sacrifice it at end of turn. When Necromancy comes into play, put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control and Necromancy becomes an enchant creature enchanting that creature. When Necromancy no longer enchants the targeted creature, destroy that creature. It can’t be regenerated.

Why would Necromancy be Misdirectable as opposed to Animate or Dance? Have I been missing something all along? :/

Belcher's only tool is that it is extremely fast, wheras dragon is much more resiliant to hate, and isn't shut down by a null rod. Though dragon can be shut down by tormod's crypt, it isn't completely shut down (necromancy tricks, rifilling the grave, 2 win conditions, etc.), plus the fact that it is redundant in the "win" spell catagory (animate spells), so it is much less likely to be shut down by a simple FoW. Also, from what I gleaned from Smmenen's Tog vs. Belcher report, dragon does not have to mulligan as aggresively, and does not flat out lose when disrupted.

I agree that if your area is filled with combo, dragon with blue is probably superior to a non-blue deck, if your area is combo-light G/B might be a better choice.

You're basically right on with your analysis, excepting one major point. Consider that B/G Dragon can painlessly sideboard or even maindeck Null Rod if the metagame at hand calls for it. This not only gives you the upper hand against other combo (3 Null Rod, 4 Duress, 3 Unmask). With your opponent (say, Draw7.dec or perhaps Belcher) trying to play around this disruption, you can easily outrace them a fair amount of the time.

In an area filled with combo, I'd stay away from Dragon altogether. Dragon is more suited for metas that are control and aggro, and especially in the control decks are mainly Hulk or GAT

Again, while I respect your wealth of experience I feel that your comments are heavily influenced by the "The Blue splash is strictly better, I'm only here to tell you why," mentality that you seem to maintain. I've addressed the points you make with which I hold my disagreements.

[everythingitouchdies]

I have been playing b/g dragon for the upwards of six months, much enjoying its ability to win 2nd or 3rd and sometimes 1st turn. I have sworn by my build which is considered suicide even to some b/g dragon players.

However, in the last few weeks the discussion of blue is getting to me. I almost unable to win after the third turn against any control player who knows what dragon is. It seems like the logical choice to give up those couple of turns (at best) for the sake of a consistent win. Compulsion is not a wasteland target. Force of Will is BETTER than xantid swarm because it cannot be fired. Stifle is devastating.

Now the concern I have run into is b/u/g vs. b/u. B/U seems to play more consistently, but simply from playing the green one becomes comfortable being able to lean on sb naturalize for stuff like the dreaded ROOT MAZE that does get played from time to time, along with ground seal and humility (oh yes, humility... I have seen a parfait deck and it has popped up in some keeper sideboards) as well as pernicious deed for stuff that you simply cant deal with.

Alas, by adding green a whole new field of weakness opens. You are now more vulnerable to back to basics, blood moon, wastelands, etc. In the end it is a metagame choice between the three, that should look something like this:

B/G: primarily aggro, budget, low number of keeper and fish players

B/U: More control decks and where blood moon is likely to be maindecked

B/U/G: Diverse mix where blood moon is not dominant.



I think in the end B/U is the best build, a hard confession to make after such devoted loyalty to B/G dragon.

EITD

[sa17dk]

Just a question I've been wondering about. If you were at a 5-proxy tournament, and you used 4 "proxy slots" for Bazaar, what would be your 5th proxy? Would it be better to use the one time boost of Black Lotus, or would a Mox of the deck's respective/needed color work better? I was thinking about the fact that for most combo decks, a 3 mana boost would be better than a 1 mana boost in the example of decks like Draw-7 and Belcher, but Dragon seems to be a bit on the slower side in terms of going off. So in this case, Dragon has at least a tiny bit of early-mid game tech in the form of Bazaar w/ Squee, and the extra disruption it packs (FoW/Duress/Xantid compared to only FoW or only Duress in other decks). Considering this, would the consistent mana source a mox provides be better?

[Shabbaman]

You need a permanent mana source to go off (unless you're making tokens with caller of the claw). So you need to play a land, mox, sol ring or mana crypt. Bazaar competes with the land drop as well. I've proxied a lotus, but I kept saying "why isn't this a mox?".

[everythingitouchdies]

I think you would be better off with an ancestral recall proxy, as one mox or lotus wont always make the difference but many games are won or lost over ancestral.

EITD

[Bulls on Parade]

I think you would be better off with an ancestral recall proxy, as one mox or lotus wont always make the difference but many games are won or lost over ancestral.

EITD

Ancestral Recall is neither Black nor Green.

I'd proxy the Lotus, but it wouldn't be a simple choice. Think about how often you're going to go off with just the mox, and you'll realize why there's no need for it to not be the Lotus.

[dicemanx]

Your 5th proxy should be a Lotus, easily. It can lead to more broken plays turn 1/2.

If you're worried about not being able to combo off turn 1 because of a lack of a permanent source, you can run Caller of the Claw as a secondary win condition. I wouldn't bother though.