[Article] Matchup Analysis: Psychatog v. Goblin Charbelcher

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=7417

In this article, I throw Psychatog up against Belcher because, as the Type One control deck with the fastest goldfish and the most disruptive anti-combo elements, it will properly stress test Belcher's weak spots at the same time the fast goldfish diminishes the chances of midgame recovery through topdecking. Another advantage of Tog is that we don't have to resort to hosers like Null Rod, Damping Matrix, or even Trinisphere to see if Belcher can overcome them - we are testing a standard array of cards that many decks will have, including Force of Will.

I put alot of work into this - so I hope you enjoy it.

Steve

[DEA]

Keep in mind that if someone attacks you and you have Tinder Wall in play - you can block, sacrifice the Wall and use the other ability to do two damage to the creature it was blocking - this may actually be important if a Germbus player attacks you with a morph (Exalted Angel) or if they, or anyone else attacks you and you happen to have a Red mana open. Killing Shamans could be quite useful.

yes, this might be useful, if your opponent doesn't have this :

Text (IA+errata): 0/3. (Walls can't attack.) ; Sacrifice ~this~: Add {R} to your mana pool. ; ,Sacrifice ~this~: ~this~ deals 2 damage to target creature it's blocking. [Oracle 2000/02/01]

note the placement of the colon

[ivansoup]

Great article. I can tell alot of work went into it. I've tested some older belcher decks quite a bit online, and agree with most of your conclusions. I'm a little surprised none of the decks listed were running duress, as I've found that to be extremely useful before going off, although it does slow the deck down somewhat.  Also....how much did the inclusion of cabal ritual help? - I haven't tried it, and run more brainstorms instead.

[Smmenen]

The Cabal Rituals are very nice. I'm not sure Duress is needed with Welders and Wish -> Welder.

Steve

[Caelestis]

DEA, did you read what you quoted?

anyone else attacks you and you happen to have a Red mana open. Killing Shamans could be quite useful.

I believe you meant semicolon, though?

[Smmenen]

If you guys want more of this sort of thing - speak up with a suggestion.l


Steve

[tehmajickguy]

Great article as usual, but I do have a question. Based upon your experiences from testing Belcher versus Tog, do you think it would be a better sideboard option for Tog to run a 2nd Mutation in the board over Rack and Ruin? Or would this negatively effect its other matches too much?


As for suggestions for more articles like this, I would love to see a piece like this done on Control Slaver versus Tog, seeing as how it will be a common match throughout the summer tourney season.

[Smmenen]

I think cutting Rack would negatively harm this matchup for Tog.  If they have Welder and Belcher in play, you may need the Rack and Ruin to stop both Welder and Belcher (by destroying a mox or whatnot).

Steve

[Jacob Orlove]

If you guys want more of this sort of thing - speak up with a suggestion.l


Steve

This was a great article. At the risk of asking you to sound like Rakso, the tog/germbus matchup could be very interesting.

[DEA]

you can block, sacrifice the Wall and use the other ability to do two damage to the creature it was blocking

did you read the first part of what i quoted?

[SimpleHiker]

Sorry I have no constructive comments on your work.
But as a old player just getting back into the game after a LONG break this was a great read. The writing is informative and easy to understand. When trying to get back into type one nothing is worse the reading a article that takes the readers type 1 knowledge for granted. It gave me a much better understanding of both decks.

Thanks,
JTW

[Smmenen]

Your welcome, thanks for your comments.  

Steve

[theorigamist]

@DEA, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're thinking that Steve said you could sacrifice the Tinder Wall for mana and use that mana for its damage ability.  What he's actually saying is that you shouldn't forget that Tinder Wall does have an ability besides the mana one.  The article is absolutely consistent with the rules there.

@Steve, I really liked this article.  Belcher has so many decisions that need to be made so early on that, in my opnion, the subtleties of its matchups are much more interesting than most other decks.  I'd like to comment on your final question regarding this hand:

Elvish Spirit Guide,
Tinder Wall
Sol Ring
Chromatic Sphere,
Demonic Tutor
Spoils of the Vault
Living Wish

(First, note that I'm disregarding the extra information you gave regarding the top couple of cards and the opponent's hand, since that information would be unavailable at the time when you actually have to make the decision.)  I think the right play here is almost definitely to mulligan.  You are not very likely to mulligan into a less potent or more risky hand than that group of seven.  The way I see it you have several possibilities that are all fairly mediocre.

1. Remove ESG to play Tinder Wall.  Sacrifice Tinder Wall to play Sol Ring, floating R.  Tap Sol Ring to play Chromatic Sphere and sacrifice it for some things.

a. If you sacrifice for black, Demonic Tutor for Land Grant.  I can't think of anything else you would want to Demonic for here, especially since you have the Living Wish and the Spoils (which you can use to get Belcher).  Demonic for Land Grant is not too appealing, but not much regarding this sequence is appealing anyway.

b. If you sacrifice for green, Living Wish for a land.  Gemstone Mine would allow you to use that Spoils.

2. Remove ESG to play Sol Ring.  Use Sol Ring to play Chromatic Sphere and Sacrifice it for green.  Play Tinder Wall.  This option leaves you with 2RR on your second turn, in the hopes that you draw something useful.  This option is very unappealing, as it is a huge gamble.  You leave yourself with no way to get black or green mana for the tutors in your hand, although you do have enough mana for a topdecked Belcher or Wheel.  But that's only five cards in your deck.  The odds are against you.

I can't think of a play involving Spoils here.  When I was fiddling around with budget 2 land Belcher a while ago, Spoils got Land Grant to smooth my mana and get rid of my lands.  In this case, however, there is too great a risk that you might remove your only land, and thus make your Land Grant useless.  With that hand, lacking any colored remaining mana, you can't really risk that.  You also can't really Spoils for Belcher, because if you get the Belcher you don't have the mana to play it, and then you're relying solely on topdecking.

So the best play with that hand seems to be the Living Wish for Gemstone Mine, which is your only chance of having the right colored mana on turn 2.  But even then you won't have enough to play a Belcher, especially if you need to use your only colored source to Spoils or Demonic to get the Belcher.  You're looking at playing the Belcher on turn 3, at which point you've lost.  This, of course, ignores the fact that a Hulk should have a Force or a Cunning Wish by turn three if they're mulliganing properly.

So the real best play would be to mulligan.

[rvs]

I haven't read the article yet Steve, and I'll make a real comment when I do (and actually have something else to say), but I'm just really glad you wrote this style of article again. These very detailed matchup analysis are your best stuff.

[goober]

Great stuff.  I picked this deck up when it won Dulmen, and used a pretty similar version. I added in Duress then traded those for Xanthids.  I think you are right to not use them though, they seem excessive.  Cabal Rituals and removing a land and Tendrils are great ideas.  The Bayou might be a problem because I usually find myself needed the initial B to power Rituals into brokenness/the win.  I only had 4 spheres though, so the 2 additional Sextants might be all thats needed.  It's just that black is what lets me play the belcher fast and some tutors for it, where blue is only the draw7s or draw to find it.  Which is pretty much half of the role of black.

I am going to do a lot of testing of this though, because I am torn.

[Smmenen]

Thanks.  I wasn't using Sextants - I played the 2nd list in posted (Kim Klucks) and cut Tendrils and Bayou for Cabal Ritual 2 and 3.  In retrospect, I think I'd cut Spoils for Cabal Ritual number 4 as well.

I probably didn't go into enough detail on the issue mostly becuase of space constraints (the article is already long enough), but I wanted to emphasize that Welder and Wish are what make this deck have any resiliency - and that it fits the deck to have reactive reslience, instead of proactive - i.e. play Welders rather than Duress or Swarm.

Steve

[carlossb]

First, congrats Steve for writing an excelent article featuring Belcher.

I think that people aren´t playing more this deck because of the multiple FOW´s that are played nowadays everywere:
That´s because we´re scared of Trinisphere when the Belcher player is going second.

It seems that the *hot* deck right now is Tog, and a lot of people will read the article from the tog-player´s perspective.
I´ll not, as I played the Belcher deck as much as the tog deck.

To all the players suggesting to play Duress in the Belcher deck, first read the discussion of the **[Deck] Charbelcher Combo 2004**


http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15329&highlight=deck+belcher


You don´t have 4 LED to play with Duress as we used to in Long. You don´t have to give the opponent another turn by playing Duress.

[skecreatoR]

I said it before, big stax, real gat... forget it.

Again, I said it before, the article is great, and the predecessors were too. They are a great read and gives much inspiration to play both decks, and they help you deciding what cards to play.

But, sometimes I think you go a little off the "advanced analyzis" approach you have to these articles, and go into the fundamental which should be clear for anyone. If these articles shall become better, you need to have more analyzing and less banalities. I don't really think some random .scrub reads this, or at least they shouldn't be the target of your excellent writing.

My best example:

I use the Red to play Welder (which is excellent with Jar recursion - each Mox becomes Memory Jar).

My initial thought was "that guy surely knows how to play with a Goblin Weld0r." That is my sole issue with the article (and the ones before it), they are great and they are probably the articles I like reading the most.

It is nitpicking, I know.

[Kasuras]

A very, very good job this is.

The article is readable for every player, although he never heard of belcher before, I think it might even show the unknowing, and even the knowing, player how to play this deck.

But there are just a few minor problems which I encountered.

-You played against just one opponent. Of course; you want to show the deck and how to play it, but wouldn't it be better if you showed testing versus other players too? I'm not saying this is a bad choice, I'm just wondering if another approach wouldn't have been better. For example; two or three opponents, it would make some difference since uou can also show what happens if you play versus a bad tog player. (Note: I'm wondering of those really exist.)

I would like to know how you feel about that approach.

-In the beginning of the article, you speak about playing one land:

In Type One, no such trick is needed. Instead, this deck simply runs one land.

However, in the beginning of your article: you still play two lands. This creates some misunderstanding in the beginning of the article which is explained later on.


But as said, these are just minor problems which don't really matter but might improve the next article that might be coming in this row.

I was thinking about writing a primer about belcher, but since you wrote this article: mine wouldn't be necessary since yours is much better I could write.

[Tempe]

If you guys want more of this sort of thing - speak up with a suggestion.l


Steve

Tog vs. Control Slaver? As two of the most popular decks, its bound to be one of the most common matchups.

Interesting article as well.

[Klep]

-In the beginning of the article, you speak about playing one land:

In Type One, no such trick is needed. Instead, this deck simply runs one land.

However, in the beginning of your article: you still play two lands. This creates some misunderstanding in the beginning of the article which is explained later on.

He showed the games with 2 land for the express purpose of explaining why the deck wants only one land.  It's fine how it is.

[jazzykat]

Firstly: MORE OF THESE KINDS OF ARTICLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I have spoken up)

I'm just really glad you wrote this style of article again. These very detailed matchup analysis are your best stuff.

Umm....what he said. FANTASTIC, honest, informative, and objective! This is what I like to see more than anything and if you are doing another analysis I would love to see Hulk take on GAT!

These articles give me insight into how one plays a match. Through a lot of playtesting I get better against a deck but I can't tell you why. This tells me why things are done, which is by far the most useful part of the article.

PS: I think you should leave in some of the obvious stuff like welder is good with memory jar because not everyone plays t1, or plays at a high level. This makes the article accessible to the "masses" as well as provides insight to the intermediate players.

[kerensky]

Respectable article but I prefer Apprentice logs over this unwieldy format.

[Smmenen]

Sarcasm right?

Steve

[rozetta]

I liken reading these kind of articles to watching a world championship snooker match. When those guys play, they almost never make a mistake - angles, pace on the ball, spin - they pot every ball and leave the white in a perfect position for the next shot as though it were natural. After watching snooker at that level, you make your way down the pub and play a game or two of pool and actually start making those shots you were too careless to make before. You've watched the pros taking their time, making the calculations and making perfect shots and it's rubbed off on you. And for those few games you actually play better than normal.

When reading these articles, if you play magic afterwards, some of that calculated and careful thinking actually rubs off on you and you play a better game.

But you have to keep watching more and practising more if you want to get good at Snooker. Video those matches and watch them again and then go play some more.

So, I say we definitely need more of these articles.

[bebe]

I would like to see JPs madness build against control slaver. My gut feeling is that the match up is in madness' favor but I would like to see your take on it.

[Smmenen]

The reason I don't use apprentice logs is because

a) apprentice sucks (inconsistency - bad shuffler)

b) you miss real life factors

What I do is my opponent and I sit down, I plug in my laptop, and I record in short hand, play by play, the entire game (and my opening hand).

I then convert my short hand afterward into full text.

For examle, my hand notation might be>

D. Rit, ESG, B. Lotus, L.G. Mox P, Belch.  

And my turn one might be:
LG, Trop -> Wall

And I convert that into full text.

Then I go over all 39 games and This is when I actually figure out the matchup myself - beyond what I learned in actual testing.  I look for trends and slowly select the games I'm going to use to illustrate each basic way the matchup plays out.   I did the same thing with the TnTv. Tog, Tog v. Long, and here.

Steve

[Jhaggs]

First all, I really enjoyed this article.  I recently ran Belcher in a tournament (2-Land) and had alot of success with with.  Your article really drove home some great points and introduce some new theory for me to ponder.  I intend to employ the One Land Plan having read your article.
I think for long.dec players, Blecher provides an interesting new twist on explosive starts and  new challenging puzzles to find the ONE right avenue towards victory.  I think your article will hopefully encourage other combo players to re-develop this Blecher build in the hopes of making this Combo strategy more consistent.

I think that people aren´t playing more this deck because of the multiple FOW´s that are played nowadays everywere:
That´s because we´re scared of Trinisphere when the Belcher player is going second.

Carlos brings up a very good point with his post.  Blecher simply dies to Trinishpere.  It is also hurt by Chalice set at one.  Both plays are very easy to pull off with various Slavery builds.  I think this is exactly the reason players are opting not to run Blecher.  Blecher can really perform beautifully across the field, however it is inevitable that they will run into a top tier deck that can "win" faster than blecher by dropping a bomb that completely negates blechers game-plan.

I don't want to turn this into a Blecher discussion (a great one is found in the link that Carlos provided) but I will say that Combo decks must employ some sort of control mechanism.  The theory that Blechers best game plan is "to win ASAP" is flawed.  Simply put, consistency with combo can be found with the inclusion of Force of Will and there is plenty of room to maneuver more blue inside current builds.  If long can find room for FOW so can Blecher.  I understand for the article's sake it was probably best to demonstrate the incredibly speed at which Blecher can win, but it was far to easily shut down to be reliable.  If Blecher is to make a splash at GenCon, it'll have to run FOW.

As for upcoming articles similar to this one, i would LOVE to read Hulk v. Germbus/Hulk v. GAT/Germbus v. GAT.  I have numerous questions in regards to this particular matches epically involving sideboard plays.

Thanks again Steve.  Incredible work as always

[Saucemaster]

Well you know I love these articles of yours, Steve, and once again, fantastic job.  One suggestion re: the next matchup article: don't do Tog vs. X, simply because that would make the fourth matchup article featuring Tog, and I'd hate for you to become the Rakso of Psychatog.  I think that going into the Con season it might be interesting to see something like Fish or FCG--a deck more easily built by most players heading into a sanctioned tournament--vs. some of the more high-profile current decks (one of the Slaver builds, for example, though there are plenty of interesting matchups to be seen there).  It would provide something for both the budget players and for the people who will have to crush the budget players in order to make the top tables.

[Smmenen]

Heh. BATTLE OF THE BUDGET DECKS: Food Chain versus Fish!

I don't know if I have tolerance for that.... but we'll see.  I'm just fielding suggestions to see if anything strikes my fancy.  I would enjoy playing Food Chain or Workshop slavery against something - or Belcher against something else.

Steve