[Deck] U/R Tim needs help.

[[supa_t(im)]]

Okay here's what I have so far, its done pretty good.

Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory

Permission
4 FoW
4 Mana Leak

Critters
4 Razorfin Hunter
4 Horseshoe Crab
4 Spiketail Hatchling

Draw/Ping
4 Curiosity
4 Quicksilver Dagger
4 Standstill

Other
4 Fire/Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

Land:
Duals and fethes, looks pretty good.  Added manlands, for some damage under standstill.  I'm not sure if I should include 4 conclave.

Permission
FoW one of the best counters, too good not to include
Mana Leak, the best splashable counter spell, usually works just as good

Critters
tim well, he's tim, the basic pinger.  Okay I'm thinking of taking Tim out, he can be good against scrubby decks, but against more competitive decks he's usually FoW fodder or a chump blocker.  I did take him out for Spiketail Hatchling because it gives me more utility.
Razorfin Hunter probably the best pinger, b/c he's only 2 mana, good curiosity target
Horseshoe crab not great on his own but with the dagger and high tide, he becomes a good finisher/draw engine

Draw/Ping
Curiosity the main draw power of this deck for obvious reasons
Quicksilver dagger good on a crab, also a good draw engine
brainstorm good with fetches, a all around good draw spell.  I took it out and repaced it with Standstill because I added manlands.

Other
High tide is good tech with the crab in play but I can't help but feeling that its not needed.  Took it out for more anti aggro and finisher Lightning Bolt
fire/ice can be both draw and anti-aggro, too good not to use

*edit: added card explanations, 'cause thats what I was supposed to do in the first place  

My meta is mostly scrubby but 1 or 2 people play good decks, with one playing powered (duh) Hulk.

Any suggestions?

[AngryPheldagrif]

Welcome to TheManaDrain. Rule #1; don't post decklists with no explanation! I have no clue as to whether this is budget, casual, competitive or what.

As a competitive T1 player, I will say that your deck is awful. Pretty much every Tier 1 and 2 deck will eat you alive. I would suggest, since your list suggests that you have a fair bit of competitive cards but no power, trying one of these budget decks.

*Bear in mind that these are the constructive critisism of a teenager playing fully powered Mask. I ain't flamin'*

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15446

Good luck,
Dan

[Dr. Sylvan]

Moved to Casual.

[Silverdragon]

I like the idea of a combokill with MoM. You don't need MoM but when it hits the table you win by simply cycling through your deck (of course you need a dagger or curiosity to kill but even without carddraw it could be possible to kill "Hulk-style")
Instead of Tim you could play Suq'Ata Firewalker. At least he can't be killed by a random fire or bolt.

[[supa_t(im)]]

Ok, I was thinking of making it competitive, but have since dropped that idea.  I have a R/G beatz for that kind of stuff.  If you are gonna tell me that the deck isn't going to work in competitive play could you give me an example of how I would get stomped.

*I'm asking this as a college student with the closest thing to power being mox diamond (well, you started it)*  

I thought I was supposed to post in the newbie forum, cause I was a newbie here, boy am I confused.

I could use MOM, because the game drags on long enough that I have enough mana to put it out, and that would mean game over, but I'm not sure what to take out.  I mentioned before that the high tides were good, but not really needed, I could but 1 in place of those, but what else to put in.  And I like the idea of the firewalker, I'll try it with him.

Thanks.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Take a look at [card]Charisma[/card]. It makes for lots of fun, I swear.

[[supa_t(im)]]

I don't know, I tend to ignore their critters or kill them out right.  Of course if they sneak some fatty under my counters it would be very useful.  Another thing is what to take out for them.  Maybe the high tides for 3 charisma and 1 MOM?

[PucktheCat]

[non-casual comment]
If you want an idea how something pretty similar to this might evolve into a competitive deck you could run a search on Gay/r and WTF.dec.  Both are good decks that run a combination of permission and pingers not unlike your own.
[/non-casual comment]

As a casual deck, though, I have to say I love this.  This is like a modern version of what I used to build in like 1997.  You are probably right that the High Tides could probably go, though.

Leo

[goober]

Theres a new Tim, Vulshock Sorcerer, from 5D which is red and has haste.  You might want to include him over Tim himself.  It costs 1RR, so I don't know about you manabase being able to consistantly do that.  IF it looks like 8 fetch, 4 duals, 4 Shivan Reefs, then you might as well.

[[supa_t(im)]]

About Gay/r, well, I think I would like this deck, alas I don't have ceratin key cards for it, namely, enough cloud of faeries, grim lavamancer, more voidmage prodigies (sp), so my creature base would look kinda janky.  I don't have any of the good replacements either, like, rootwater theif.  I was thinking about a drainless landstill, maybe adding isochron scepters, but I heard that was a bad idea.

With regards to the Vulskock sorcerer, he might be it, although, I was looking for more utility, or card draw posibly in high tides place.  Also I have the fetches but not the reefs (anyway I thought that over 4 fetches was over doing it).

Thanks for the help so far!

[PucktheCat]

Cloud of Faeries is a common, so that shouldn't stop you.  Rootwater Hunter can be replace Voidmage.  I wouldn't necessarily recommend that in general, but there are certainly worse things you could do.  Grim Lavamancer is necessary though.

Isochron Scepter + Standstill = NOT A COMBO.  Don't do it.

Leo

[[supa_t(im)]]

Yeah, cloud of faereis shouldn't be a problem to get, its the $8 per lavamancer thats keeping me from the deck.  Its not a whole lot of money normally, but I just spent a good amount of cash on duals, so out of my price range right now.  I was thinking, Mogg Fanatic over the lavamancer, and razorfin hunter over voidmage.  This is casual, its not like I'm gonna be competing with it.

I actually built that iso-still, and it did pretty well against scrubby, but any good aggro deck would run over it because it didn't have the disks.  Still, it was fun to play.

And I have a kinda n00b question, if I change my decklist, is it proper forum ettiquite to update the one already posted, or should I post another one?

[Jacob Orlove]

And I have a kinda n00b question, if I change my decklist, is it proper forum ettiquite to update the one already posted, or should I post another one? :?

Generally, if there was a lot of specific discussion, you should post a new list, so people don't see posts mentioning cards that you're no longer playing.

If you're making an update with few or no comments, it's better to just edit the most recent list.

[[supa_t(im)]]

Okay, I updated the decklist and changed the discussion to explain some of the changes.

I'm not trying to make it completely Gay/r, just put in some elements that work.  I still want a deck based around "timming" because its fun and this is a casual deck (and my name is Tim   ).

With the new decklist, do you think that I have enough curiosity targets, or should I keep brainstorm in?

I haven't playtested this version yet, but it looks good on paper.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[[supa_t(im)]]

Alrighty then!!

After much playtesting, I have found that this deck has the same problem with scrubby that Gay/r does.  In fact, I've had better luck in my meta with Sui-black (ugh, that sounds really bad).

However, I still wish to create a U/r Tim deck because it took me a while to get a hold of the V. Islands.  However, Gay/r would not work in my meta since it is so scrubby and aggro based.

Some suggested, but untested changes to the deck:

Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory

Permission
4 FoW
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell

Critters
4 Horseshoe Crab  

Draw/Ping
4 Impulse
4 Quicksilver Dagger
4 Standstill
1 Mystical Tutor

Other
4 Fire/Ice
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Isochron Scpeter
1 Mind Over Matter

It is a total of 61 cards because I'm not sure what to take out.

Mana base hasn't changed

I added counterspell for more hard counters.  I thought it would help in keeping them from doing anything.  However, 12 counters may be a little excessive.  I was also thinking of putting more burn in this slot, possibly incinerate.  I do see a fair amount of hardcasted fatties that burn can't easily take out however, so I thought maybe the counter magic would be better.  Still not sure.

I brought it down to only the crabs because they should be my win condition, and I felt that the deck should be built around keeping me alive until I can win with crab-balling them.

Since the critter count went down I dropped the curiosity for Impulse (better with stick).  I also added a tutor to fetch what I need.  However, I'm not sure if the tutor is necessary, I'm curious to hear what you think.

Finally, I added 3 sticks and MOM.  The sticks can give me an altenate win condition through bolt or F/I, or I can give them a headache with counter magic (especially with standstill in play, and 2 mana open).  MOM because as mentioned before is an awesome combo with pingers.  It can also help me win if my crab runs out of mana fuel.

So what do you think?  Is it complete jank? (If so, please give a reason)
If you think that this wont work, is there another idea for a U/R deck that would be fun to play and work well in scrubby?

Thanks!

[[supa_t(im)]]

wow, okay that list worked even worse than the first list.

1 Last change in the decklist should do it.  I've playtested this one a lot and it has been doing rather well.

4 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory

Permission
4 FoW
4 Mana Leak
3 Daze

Critters
4 Horseshoe Crab
4 Cloud of Faeries

Draw/Ping
4 Brainstorm
4 Quicksilver Dagger
4 Standstill  

Other
4 Fire/Ice
4 Lightning Bolt  
1 Mind Over Matter

I changed it to add more critters b/c I found that having only the crab was not good with the dagger.  This deck is loosely based on Gay/r so I included the Cloud.

I dropped the counterspells for Daze because of the freeness.  I tend to tap out a lot for my manlands and crab.  However, I'm still not sure whether I should use the counterspells.  Do you think they will make a difference?

Brainstorm comes back in because its better than impulse without sticks.  It also works very well with my fetch lands.

MOM has gotten me out of a tough situation many times.  Usually the game drags on long enough for me to have enough mana to play it.

Well, I've had really good luck with this deck, do you think its in top condition?