Bringing on the Slaver

[Nightwind]

I wanted to find some fun in the new set and this is what I've come up with. It's a bit janky to begin... but it's great fun to play.

EDITED: Decided to change up a few things now that Forbidden Orchard has come into being. This list is edited from it's original state:

The Combo:
4x Oath of Druids
4x Forbidden Orchard
1x Darksteel Colossus

The Lock:
3x Bringer of the White Dawn
2x Mindslaver

I said no:
4x Force of Will
3x Duress

Removal:
3x Ghastly Demise

Mandatory Vintage Cards:
2x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine

Search:
4x Brainstorm
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Crop Rotation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Vampiric Tutor

Get it back:
1x Regrowth
1x Gaeas Blessing
1x Yawgmoth's Will

Mana-base:
4x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Diamond
1x Black Lotus

For those wondering why there are 3 Bringers in an Oath deck the answer is because the creature doesn't have any evasion. It's vulnerable to burn and StP. I upped the count to 3 because of this.

Sideboard:
3x Hurkyl's Recall/Stifle (depending on the meta being combo or stacker variants)
3x Oxidize
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sundering Titan
1x Plated Slagwurm
1x Ground Seal
3x Naturalize

The Sideboard is open for discussion as well. The Gilded Drakes are something that I have wanted to test for a while now. Primarily I would side them in against Mask-naught, BFD and such.

Discussion:

The object of the deck is to Oath a Bringer of the White Dawn into play with 4 mana on the table and a Mindslaver in the graveyard. The FoW's and Duresses are for the early disruption and control to set up the combo. The Ghastly Demises are main-decked because of the prevalence of Goblin Welder in the area. If using the Mindslaver route as the main lock and kill it may be suggested to main-deck the Naturalizes over the GD's to make sure a main-decked Null Rod doesn't ruin your day. The lone Darksteel Colossus is just beefy and is often a 2-turn clock. I included Tinker in the deck for the Mindslavers, Crucible and Colossus.

Oath was given an early Christmas Gift this year in the form of Forbidden Orchard.

Yeah the deck it looks like it sucks, but it's a blast to play it. Anyhow I am currently playtesting it, after I added the Brainstorms the deck became a lot easier to play. The Brainstorms allow me to not only grab a needed FoW or Naturalize, it also allows me to throw a Bringer or Colossus back on top of the deck for the Oath Resolution. I've mainly only playtested against rogue decks as of yet. I have tested it against Kobold-Clamp and have found that the FoW's and Naturalize are needed against combo. I have tested it against RUG Madness and have been able to hold my own against the aggro with a 50% success rate.

Have any more ideas? Discuss.

[AngryPheldagrif]

How is this any better than the current Slaver builds?

[MrZuccinniHead]

well this IS the budget forum.

...but even for budget, why not just use goblin welders?  They're not too expensive.

[Jacob Orlove]

Actually, this is the newbie forum, and he doesn't run Welder because of the obvious dissynergy with Oath.

[VGB]

Oath is bad it T1, mostly because it makes you wait 2 turns before it does anything useful (bring a creature into play, wait for it to become active next turn), and it is a wasted card if your opponent isn't playing creatures - like with TPS, or Draw7.  If they are playing Rector, go ahead and bend over, because you are about to get reamed.

By the way, this is the n00b forum, not budget.

[AngryPheldagrif]

Oath is bad it T1, mostly because it makes you wait 2 turns before it does anything useful (bring a creature into play, wait for it to become active next turn), and it is a wasted card if your opponent isn't playing creatures - like with TPS, or Draw7.  If they are playing Rector, go ahead and bend over, because you are about to get reamed.

By the way, this is the n00b forum, not budget.

He's actually playing [card]Funeral Pyre[/card] to get around the creatureless drawback of Oath, but I would use [card]Sleeper Agent[/card] over it anyday.

The main problems I would forsee mostly govern the extranious nature of the card choices (especially the Crucible-Orb-Fastbond combo) and the randomness of the mana-base, which highlights the last of acceleration and color-quality.

-Dan

[edit]: And generally Black Lotus doesn't appear in the Budget forum

[Nightwind]

How is this any better than the current Slaver builds?

I'm not really saying that it is. The Welder/Slaver decks work very well as it is. My goal here was to find some fun in the 5th Dawn Type 1 Scene and I chose Bringer of the White Dawn as my Card of Choice. There are many bonuses to playing Bringer over the Welder:

1. Welder is vulnerable to burn/Bringer is as well but the card ratio to take out a Bringer is much greater than a Welder.

2. Welder needs an artifact in the GY and an artifact in play/Bringer needs an artifact only in the GY.

3. Welder doesn't usually block damage/Bringer can soak up some of the aggro damage.

I know that for each example I've given people can give examples for why Bringer shouldn't be used. But the purpose was to use Bringer in this deck. Example: Eon Hub doesn't let you have the upkeep fun. (It also costs 5 to bring out and still allows you to attack with a 5/5 trampler).

Oath is bad it T1, mostly because it makes you wait 2 turns before it does anything useful (bring a creature into play, wait for it to become active next turn), and it is a wasted card if your opponent isn't playing creatures - like with TPS, or Draw7. If they are playing Rector, go ahead and bend over, because you are about to get reamed.

I am using Funeral Pyre for more than the obvious reason. The obvious reason being to give my opponent creatures. Your example of playing against Rector only gives me more reason to play the Funeral Pyre. Funeral Pyre is partially responsible for the 50% Success Rate against RUG Madness as noted above, it was great against the Roars and Deeps.

He's actually playing Funeral Pyre to get around the creatureless drawback of Oath, but I would use Sleeper Agent over it anyday.

I've decided on the Pyres over Sleeper Agent for reasons noted above.

The main problems I would forsee mostly govern the extranious nature of the card choices (especially the Crucible-Orb-Fastbond combo) and the randomness of the mana-base, which highlights the last of acceleration and color-quality.

-Dan

[edit]: And generally Black Lotus doesn't appear in the Budget forum  

Yes there are a few combinations of cards in the deck that are quite out of the ordinary if you are concentrating on a Slavery Deck. But I have stated that the deck plays out like a Landstill deck from the start while it sets up it's combo. With 4x Wasteland and 1x Strip Mine main-decked I found no problem at all with running 1 Crucible. Fastbond can be broken all by itself and can lead to great board position from the get-go. I will agree whole-heartedly that the Zuran Orb is stretching it though, I included it because I wanted to have fun broken-ness.

[edit]: This isn't the Budget forum.

[AngryPheldagrif]

[edit]: This isn't the Budget forum.

My veiled sarcasm was aimed at a previous post

Anyways, if you're making it for fun, then you can't go wrong in the Casual Forum!!!!!

-Dan

[Nightwind]

Heh... while the intention is for a fun deck, I do like to make even the fun ones competitive. I was actually asking for input into the deck and/or other 5th Dawn incorporated Type 1 decks that are fun and yet competitive. A build of Elf-Bringer would also be interesting to see, mana acceleration + Channel of the Suns with main-decked City of Solitude. I like to have fun while being competitive at the same time. When I go to a Tournament with Power up for grabs I'll bring my RGBullets deck over this type each time. However, lately it appears that RGU(bullets) may be up and coming.

[Nightwind]

Strong showing against aggro decks. Minimal testing against FCG showed that as long as you can keep the Warchief off the table you are fine. UG Madness has a rough time keeping up under the Standstill if I'm able to drop it quickly. RGBeatz has trouble with the Oath and Counter-Backup.

Worst match-up to date: Traditional Landstill w/Decree. Not enough counters to stand up, and the opponent has many answers for my threats. Working on this as I go.

[AngryPheldagrif]

Care to test it against something Tier 1? Or even regular Workshop or Control Slaver.

-Dan

[TrixR4Kidz]

Care to test it against something Tier 1? Or even regular Workshop or Control Slaver.

-Dan

Owned pic.

If the deck is just for fun ok, but even if welder is hated out he's still always gonna be better

[Outlaw]

I personally play Control Slaver, as soon as you start doin some Trix with Welder the game quickly goes to your direction.  Multiple welders are an embarassment to your opponent, fully controlling the yards in an insane ability.  

If this deck is for fun, thats alright.  I personally dont think its gonna have an ability to compete amongst other decks in the format that are just quicker, Oath is plainly too slow.  Also the introduction of Thirst for Knowledge could help drop a slaver or other artifacts you want into the yard.

My 2c

[Ric_Flair]

Isn't this thread better off in the casual forum?  There is really no reason to run a three card CONDITIONAL combo to cast Slaver when it a two card combo (Drain or Workshop and Slaver) works much better and the piece are good on their own.  Really, there is no reason to play this deck over the original Slaver decks.  This demonstrates just how hard it is to make a new deck in Vintage.  Invented decks need to be REALLY, REALLY good.  This is not better than a pre-existing deck.  I applaude the effort to use new cards, and don't want to discourage you, but this is not the way to use Bringer of the Fifth Dawn.

[Jacob Orlove]

The primary goal of this deck is evidently not winning, so this gets moved to Casual.

[Nightwind]

Everyone (ok... not everyone, but I've seen a few) has been trying to establish a lock-down deck using Oath of Druids ever since Forbidden Orchard hit the Spoiler List.

Back before 5th Dawn was released I picked up 4 Bringers of the White Dawn on eBay for like 20 bucks because I wanted to throw them together with Oath and Mindslaver like you wouldn't believe. Not for some random rogue winning deck, but because I love to be able to abuse cards and create a no-win situation for my opponent.

Fast-Forward to today and we have Forbidden Orchards all over the place. Without making everyone re-read what I've posted above I'm just going to post my current Oath deck that I have been playtesting with 5 Proxies for our local 5 Proxy Type 1 Tournaments.

The deck as it stands right now:

Engine:
4x Oath of Druids
4x Forbidden Orchard

Beatz:
4x Darksteel Colossus (4 to overcome aggro and removal, if you don't like the number that's fine. I've been playtesting for a couple weeks now and find it to be necessary in "our" meta)
2x Dragon Breath

I said no:
4x Force of Will
3x Duress

Removal:
3x Ghastly Demise/Swords to Plowshares

Mandatory Vintage Cards:
2x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine

Search:
4x Brainstorm
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Crop Rotation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Vampiric Tutor

Get it back:
1x Regrowth
1x Gaeas Blessing
1x Yawgmoth's Will

Mana-base:
4x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Diamond
1x Black Lotus

(I've updated the decklist to it's current build. I'm still working on which cards are "necessary" and which cards are "optional", i.e. Dragon Breath.)

Sideboard
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Oxidize
3x Naturalize

6x Metagame Cards (Seedtime, Gilded Drake, Sundering Titan, Plated Slagwurm, Energy Flux, Control Magic, Diabolic Edict, Ground Seal, Ebony Charm over TC? reasoning: white indestructible bushido boy)

So far the 6 meta cards have been: 3x Stifle, 1x Sundering Titan, 1x Plated Slagwurm and 1x Ground Seal

I've also worked on a Transitional Sideboard that uses my original build, I haven't done any playtesting with this type of sideboarding yet:

3x Bringer of the White Dawn
3x Mindslaver
1x Sundering Titan
1x Plated Slagwurm
1x Control Magic
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Naturalize


Card Analysis:

Time Walk - When I started looking at the necessary power cards to put into the deck I looked at this card and had to include it. Not only is it a "cantrip" as everyone calls it these days, but it also quickens the lethal point for the DSC.

Lim-Dul's Vault - A must have after a bit of playtesting... Being able to set up your Oath turn is very good in this deck. Mill the Dragon Breath into the Graveyard before you turn up that DSC, then place that Time Walk into the Draw Step... so good. The deck works much better when it has a way to stack itself.

Brainstorm - Must have. You need to be able to put cards back on top of your library. Whether you are protecting your Oath from a Duress or setting up the Dragon Breath for your DSC.

Dragon Breath - Good for quickening the lethalness of the deck. I am currently testing with it, I will be testing without it as well. I want to be able to know for sure that it can't be swapped out for some more blue counters and/or draw. I'm debating this card's spot most in the deck right now.