Unclumping a deck

[Ric_Flair]

Okay, simple question:  Suppose I am searching through my library for a card because of a Demonic Tutor type effect, while searching I notice that all 4 of my Accumulated Knowledges are clumped together.  While searching I place one on the top of my deck, one on the bottom, and slide the other two into the deck far apart from each other at random.  I then find my card, put it into my hand, and shuffle.  I then offer the deck to my opponent.  Assuming all of the Demonic Tutor search and shuffle stuff is done correctly, is it legal to split up my Accumulated Knowledges, considering I shuffle and offer the deck to my opponent?

[Jebus]

Well, technically if you randomize your deck throughly, after seraching, it shouldn't matter if you do or not.

[rvs]

it's allowed, assuming you sufficiently randomise your deck afterwards.

[Malhavoc]

Are you sure? I once heard that even stacking lands before a match could be considered cheating, even if the deck is going to be deeply shuffled afterwards. That's because shuffling a deck already randomizes it, and there is no real need to stack cards in a certain way.

[Jebus]

Are you sure? I once heard that even stacking lands before a match could be considered cheating, even if the deck is going to be deeply shuffled afterwards. That's because shuffling a deck already randomizes it, and there is no real need to stack cards in a certain way.

It's not cheating if your deck is randomized when presented, no matter what you did to it before hand.

If your deck isn't randomized when presented, that's when you have a problem.

[SimpleHiker]

Are you sure? I once heard that even stacking lands before a match could be considered cheating, even if the deck is going to be deeply shuffled afterwards. That's because shuffling a deck already randomizes it, and there is no real need to stack cards in a certain way.

It's not cheating if your deck is randomized when presented, no matter what you did to it before hand.

If your deck isn't randomized when presented, that's when you have a problem.

Wouldn't looking at the cards, wether it be land or anything else then manual unclumping them violate the first line in the shuffling rule under rule 21 in the universal tourney rules?

"21.   Shuffling
Shuffling must be done so that the faces of the cards cannot be seen."

I can understand that normal only a judge will be asked to see the final randomized deck. But couldn't someone get nailed for improper shuffling by looking at the face of the cards if they were to unclump land or anything else?

SH

[Jebus]

You aren't supposed to look at your cards while shuffling.

But, you can look at your cards before shuffling.  Otherwise, sideboarding would be a little difficult.

[rvs]

You aren't supposed to look at your cards while shuffling.

But, you can look at your cards before shuffling.  Otherwise, sideboarding would be a little difficult.

That, and demonic tutor would be unrestricted

[brianb]

When judging, my usual protocol for dealing with mana weaving, howling wolf or sideboard card spreading, and other forms or pre-shuffle deck stacking is as follows:

Give the player a caution, letting him know that stacking his deck before shuffling is useless if he is thoroughly shuffling, and that the only logical reason for a player to do it is if he is not going to sufficiently randomize the deck and is therefore cheating.

If the player were to continue to stack the deck and be less than completely thorough in shuffling (at least seven good riffles or a combination of riffles and piles), I could then go directly to awarding match losses and DQs.  Fortunately, since most people don't mean to cheat, the caution has always been sufficient.

Stacking during tutoring is especially dangerous, since many players just do a couple of riffles or overhand shuffles, and some opponents don't cut after every tutor effect.  In friendly environments, we usually tolerate this less-than-complete randomization in order to keep the game moving, so long as we trust that noone is actually taking advantage of it.  Another thing to be wary of is the opponent who exclusively pile-shuffles after stacking the deck.  Any magician, mathematician, or Mike Long can tell you that what looks like a very thorough pile shuffle routine can leave the deck in a configuration identical to how it started.