ProsBloom revisted

[Dream_Merchant]

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15374

this is a discussion in the open budget forum regarding prosbloom
Id like to pick up from there and try to present my ideas as well

so without further due I present PromBloom

The Mana:
1 Plains
6 Forest
6 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
4 Bayou
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus

Disruption:
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Duress

The Broken Stuff:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Fastbond
2 Replenish

The Engine:
3 Squandered Resources
2 Cadaverous Bloom
3 Promise of Power
2 Death Grasp
1 Death Wish
1 Overgrown Estate
2 Sterling Grove


Unworked Sideboard
1 Balance
1 Mind Twist
1 Natural Balance
1 Replenish
1 Promise of Power
1 Death Grasp
1 Kaervek's Spite
1 Planar Birth


Deck Analysis:

Well for all those familiar with ProsBloom you will see certain distinct differences. First of all there is no blue in the deck, making it somewhat slower, but steadier by adding more white cards like death grasp and overgrown estate. Also the fast mana acceleration via natural balance is not really there and there are certain cards borrowed from enchantress deck.

The point is to keep the board clear with deeds until you have enough advantage to go into combo mode which shouldnt happen too late in the game ( turn 4 or 5 ). Once you do you ought to have a mana generator via squandered resources or cadaverous bloom and card drawing via promise of power or one of the restricted drawers. This should help you build up into a large death grasp or an entwined promise of power. To help you going there is fastbond and overgrown estate. Unlike other combo decks you can't really get stuck anywhere unless you necro yourself to 1 without anything in hand ( an unlikely occasion ).

Ideas and suggestions are more then welcome.

[Komatteru]

I hate to say that ProBloom isn't viable any more, but 6th edition rules pretty much killed the whole idea years ago.  Even in casual play, it's hard to get this to work because of the whole life issue.  The rules are stacked against it.  It's like how every control deck in T1 used to pack Mirror Universe before the rules change (so long ago...).  Now, you'd get laughed out of a tourney for showing up with that.

Pernicious Deed isn't necessary.  You should worry more about winning the game than your opponents threats.  If it takes more than a couple of turns to win, then the deck is no good.  ProsBloom was outrageously fast back in the day and combo that wants to win now needs to be quick as well.  The only time where the Deed might be useful is against aggro, but aggro won't pose much of a threat to you, as you can just do your thing without worrying too much about what they're doing (as long as you're alive).  Duress isn't bad, but Hymn to Tourach and Stupor are better for this deck, as you just need to disrupt heavily for a few turns, if you even want that.  You should concentrate on setting up your own combo.

Necro is too slow. Bargain is so much better.  You want the cards instantly instead of having to wait a turn.  Fastbond might not also be necessary.  Your life is better spent on the other core engines (below) than instead playing lands, which you can discard for two mana from the Bloom anyway.

If you really want to run white (which is unnecessary), you should at least have Enlightened Tutor.  Personally, I think white clouds things up too much and is more trouble than it's worth.  Besides, you're going to want basic lands for Natual Balance.  Overgrown Estate does you no good at all.  You don't need to sacrifice lands for life, because the game shouldn't take that long.  Zuran Orb would be better anyway, since it's free.

The core engines of the classic ProsBloom deck were:
Prosperity - This was the core card drawer of ProsBloom, hence the name. I don't think you can really call this a ProsBloom deck without Prosperity.  You can play this, but you need to change the name.

Infernal Contract - You should be running this.  You need to be able to draw lots of cards to pitch to Cadaverous Bloom.

Natural Balance - You need 4 of these and basic lands so you can get them.  You only need 2.5 colors, and the fetch lands can help you out with that.

City of Solitude - This is how you deal with Force of Will and Mana Drain.

Axe white, use Drain Life instead of Death Grip.  White offers you nothing more than a couple of enchantment searchers, but you have card drawing for that.  You should use blue instead of white.  Its much, much better.

The old decks used to use Impluse, but you could substitute in other blue card drawers instead.

Edit: Meditate might also work well instead of Infernal Contract because it doesn't cost you life.  But without 4 Vampy's, the life shouldn't get to be a problem.  You can afford to pay half a couple of times.  Contract is better because you can get the mana from the Bloom or Dark Ritual to pay for it, but Meditate is also an option.  You won't need to worry about the next turn because you shouldn't allow a next turn.  You'd have to play with that.

[Dream_Merchant]

First of all I would like to thank you for the input. Highly appreciated.

Although I don't think I really explained my intentions clearly.
Im not interested in making the old school prosbloom ( and thus i renamed the deck with a single letter difference )

Your points are totally valid. I also think that the whole concept is out of competitive play, hence the reason why I posted it here and not in the T1 forum.

Most combo decks concentrate in winning as soon as possible. While this course of action is valid for a 1to1 all out assault idea, for casual play I believe a combo deck should have other elements in it as well. Im sure in the great vaults of the casual forum we can find a large discussion on exactly what is casual, however I don't want to start on that again and will restrain myself by saying that casual often also means multiplayer. Gathering up with friends to talk about the latest news and enjoying a few games of magic over junkfood forces decks to get on a new shape.

If I ever dare playing a fast combo deck which might win early on, I might be allowed 1 game to demonstrate it..after that people will either get bored and stop playing or they will gang up on me and ..well feeling the entire table against you isnt a great feeling either.

So I thought I could impliment the backbone of ProsBloom ( which for all its worth i tend to like very much ) and make a controllish sort of version of it which would have a good enough chance against not 1 but many opponents. .. in this aspect meditate and prosperity are just terrible, so i decided to ditch blue out.

I like promise of power over infernal contract simply because it provides more options. In casual having more options is tech, while doing something singleminded is.. easily blockable. Some random guy puts true believer and shows me the meaning of clerical devotion. Besides playing with Demons gains you prestige points.

Duress is defensive, hymn and stupor is aggressive. You dont want to piss a player off so much that he concentrates his attention on you but you do want your key spells to resolve and stay on the ground long enough to do something. Low profile rules!

about necro.. i really cant believe you just said that. that card has a very good reason for being and staying restricted and for all the drawbacks it might have, a first turn ritual necro gives you the game in the pocket.

enlightened tutor..maybe... i prefer sterling grove, you see once again .. having options is good and its a defensive card.

Drain Life ..well actually you have a good point there. besides the fact that its cheaper $$$ i dont need white for it. Although i prefer the new mirrodin drain lifesque sorcery.. for RKF's great illustriations sake.. 2 Drain Life in.

Natural Balance.. well yeah great tech with squandered resources but if it gets countered ..scoop..scoop scoop. Weak point

Vs counters. Duress.. city of solitude, not bad.. ill think it over and try it out, although it doesnt work with deeds. Maybe Xantid Swarms.

Well, thanks again and im looking forward for more replies.

[Komatteru]

I caught the 'm' but thought it was a typo.  Interesting.

Necro is awesome because over a few turns it creates far too much card advantage to not be restricted.  It's powerful, but not overly broken like the Bargain, which is favored over Necro (combo decks include both, but much prefer to dump a Bargain into play than a Necro, which can just help a turn or so to recover from a bad draw).  I meant that Necro is too slow for your deck.  It won't help you anywhere near as much as the Bargain can because you have to wait a turn for the cards and you can only have 7.  It's slot is better given to something else that draws cards.

With Natural Balance/Squandered Resources, you shouldn't have to worry about it being countered.  If you Duress, you'll know if they have a counterspell in hand or not (or a way of getting one), so that shouldn't be a concern.  That's why I like City of Solitude.

I still think Meditate isn't a bad idea.  On the turn you win the game, it's awesome.  You get the 4 cards and don't have to worry about the life (which can be a problem after a few Promise of Power/Infernal Contract).  You can Meditate a few times and skip the turns you're not ever going to have, since the game will be over.

Xantid Swarm isn't a bad idea.  It's a one drop, so you might be able to slip it past the defenses.

Here's another thought to consider: if you're playing this for fun, you might just ignore the threat of counterspells.  Then you can do your thing and just have fun with it.  You probably won't play this against serious tournament decks, which means the threat of Force of Will and Mana Drain is much lower (I can't imagine too many people put those in their fun decks).

Have fun with this.  These are just suggestions, not based on testing.  Go with whatever works and is the most fun for you.

[Dream_Merchant]

Axing White

PromBloom take 2

The Mana:
1 Black Lotus
7 Forest
8 Swamp
4 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
4 Dark Ritual

Disruption:
4 Duress
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Pernicious Deed

The R stuff:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will

The Engine:
4 Squandered Resources
3 Cadaverous Bloom
3 Natural Balance
1 Zuran Orb
4 Promise of Power
3 Drain Life

so white is out, and with it the replenishes, the sterling groves and death grasp. bah..they wont be missed  

im still not bought on blue and meditates, so for the moment id like to keep them out.

I was thinking about trying out skeletal scrying but i dont really know, after all we only do have 20 hit points to start with and opponents dont help much in keeping it at that level, although with squandered resources its just very sweet.

regarding mana drains.. they do see use in casual in my circle. it all depends what you intend to do with them. if you are putting avatar of woe or sengir vampire into play.. cool. force of will also sees some play, but all 8 of them together hardly do because pure draw go decks just dont cut it for casual.. everyone hates the counterguy.

[Komatteru]

I was thinking about trying out skeletal scrying but i dont really know, after all we only do have 20 hit points to start with and opponents dont help much in keeping it at that level, although with squandered resources its just very sweet.

You might add 1 or 2 and cut a Xantid, since those are only any good against counters.  You're right about worrying about the life, but it might not hurt to include a couple.  That could get you going if your hand sucks.

regarding mana drains.. they do see use in casual in my circle.

Interesting.  I don't think that card should be played in casual play, if for no other reason than cost.  Stuff that costs more than $20-30 shouldn't be played in casual, in my opinion, unless it's strange stuff that's loads of fun, like Eureka.  

[Sheik al Kaji]

Really, please forgive my ignorance if there's something new about the deck I'm not quite grasping, but doesn't the ProsBloom deck require that one drop to zero life to get the combo going? I was around at the birth of combo, and I remember the rules then being that you had until the end of the phase/step to gain life to avoid death. I also remember that you dropped to zero life to pull off the combo.  Nowadays, state-based effects are checked before and after spells and abilities resolve, so how do you not die?

[r_x_]

Why it would? The combo is Bargain- Cadaverous Bloom to generate enough mana to kill opponent with one big x-spell.

[Dream_Merchant]

ideally the deck would function with pre 6th edition rules
i wasnt playing back then ( started with prophecy ) but from what i understand you could be 0 life and continue playing until the end of a phase, so the whole point for all those nice infernal contracts was BBB draw 4 no drawback, half of 0 is 0. but it doesn't need to drop to zero

the point as r_x_ said is to drop a bargain and cadaverous bloom via squandered resources natural balance combo thus having  pay 1 life: add BB to your mana pool and build up into a huge drain life ( doesnt need to be 20 damage, actually it rarely is..thats why i dont get the 1 drain life variants) and then another one to kill.

ill try it with 2 skeletal scryings and see how it goes.

on note: the deck which abused the 0 life trick was a certain variant of keeper from what i believe, having mirror universe and necro on the ground, drawing down to zero then making the opponent zero. game over.

mirror universe is still expensive today and still cool but it has been ages since it has seen any kind of competitive play. today an artifact which kind of smells like tap,sac:kill is mind slaver.