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Author Topic: Saproling Deck  (Read 3621 times)
Twitcher
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« on: July 10, 2004, 08:24:06 pm »

Hey guys, I am looking for some help with this saproling deck.  I want it to be more consistent and just better overall.

Land:
11x Forest
3x Gaea's Cradle
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors

Creatures:
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Priest of Titania
2x Verdeloth the Ancient

Spells:
4x Spontaneous Generation
4x Saproling Burst
4x Saproling Symbiosis
4x Collective Unconscious
1x Biorhythm
1x Crop Rotation

Artifacts:
1x Sol Ring
1x Grim Monolith
1x Mana Vault
3x Coat of Arms

I need help cutting it down to sixty cards.  Some ideas i had were to include 4x wirewood heralds and 1x caller of the claw to use against board sweepers such as wrath and starstorm.  I also was thinking about replacing the collective unconscious w/ skullclamps.  Any help at all is greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
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Ephraim
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2004, 10:09:24 pm »

This may just be the casual forum, but if you want feedback on your deck, it is advisable that you follow the forum rules. It is not our job to figure out what you're trying to do with your deck, nor why you've selected the cards that you have. Inclusion of relevant discussion about your deck helps others to see your thought processes and allows us to make informed decisions, as well. The rules regarding discussion of one's deck aren't simply in place to make the administration feel good. They prompt users to thoroughly understand their own decks before they post here, as well as providing readers with critical information about the way your deck works.

Furthermore, the deck list I see only has fifty-seven cards in it. You've noted five cards after the deck list, which brings the deck up to sixty-two, which may be the working deck, but you've not made that clear.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
Twitcher
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2004, 02:21:13 pm »

Sorry about that, I posted this thread late at night yesterday and forgot a couple of things.  

First things first, the deck revolves around saprolings.  I use the elves, artifacts, and nonbasic lands for acceleration so I can lay down a spontaneous generation or a burst to get saprolings, and follow it up by a collective unconscious, coat of arms, or saproling symbiosis.  I want it to quickly beatdown the opponent no matter what, and consistently do so.  

The deck actaully has 58 cards in it, because i forgot to include 2x Rofellos, Llanowar emissary.   Sorry about that, mistake on my part.  Also, the reason I stated I wanted to cut it down to sixty cards was because even though it is currently 60 cards, I need help with additions to the deck regarding the board sweepers I mentioned in my first post and cards against control and such.  One idea I had to thwart a Wrath of God or other board sweeper is to use 4x Wirewood Heralds and 1x Caller of the Claw, so when they lay down the WoG I can tutor for caller of the claw and make a buncha bears at end of turn.  

I also need help determing if skullclamp is better than collective unconscious or maybe some other type of card drawing.

I am also now considering splashing another color in.  The two colors I am considering are blue and red.  Blue to splash for aether mutation, draw, and counters, or Red for Pandemonium, Artifact mutations, and burn.  Any help is greatly welcomed.

Ephraim, sorry to bother you but could you post a link or tell me where I can find the forum rules?  This is my first time posting and after looking around I did not spot it among the sticky threads or anywhere else.  Thanks.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2004, 08:36:50 pm »

FAQ / Tips

It's posted in all of the open forums. Sorry if the name of the thread was misleading.

Regarding your deck:

I don't think it's absolutely necessary to splash blue. With your mana generation, it shouldn't take you very long to get enough mana to cast Collective Unconscious. Since your mana base consists largely of Elves and since you intend to create a lot of Saprolings, Collective Unconscious should draw you more cards than most of the blue options. If you're worried about card drawing early in the game, then having two Skullclamps in the deck wouldn't hurt anything. After you can cast Collective Unconscious, by all means you should. While Skullclamp yields two cards for each creature you control, it also eliminates your beaters. Two Collective Unconscious and two Skullclamp is probably a good mix. More than one Skullclamp is redundant and you probably won't need to resolve more than one Collective Unconscious to bring to bear overwhelming force.

Biorythm seems kind of random. Yes, it might gain you a lot of life and it might knock your opponent back by a lot, but it also has the potential to sit dead in your hand. I think that slot would be better filled with Parallel Evolotion.

I would consider taking out both City of Traitors and maybe even an Ancient Tomb, for more forests. You're counting on getting some Elves out early, which could be hindered by only having eleven sources of green mana in the deck. More forests also make Rofellos that much better.

To make room for Caller of the Claw and Wirewood Herald, I would start by taking out two Coat of arms and one Verdeloth, the Ancient. Multiple Coat of Arms are simply excessive. Having one in play, with the number of Saprolings you're going to generate is overkill. Verdeloth is nice, since he also generates Saprolings, but he's also very expensive. One copy is enough, I think. If necessary, you might even consider removing both copies of Verdeloth. If mass removal really is a concern, you'd probably be better off protecting yourself from it than generating even more Saprolings.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
Twitcher
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2004, 09:41:16 pm »

Thanks for your help, I'll update my decklist and test it out, see if it helps.  

I just wanted to run this by you, as it's kind of important.  In large team games which frequently occur at the local FNM, enchantments and artifacts are quite rampant.  Should I splash a color for aura mutation and artifact mutation to deal with these hinderances and use them as ways to net me more saprolings? Or am I better off just using naturalize?

And just one more thing, should I find a spot for a playset of Xantid Swarms for use against control?
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Phantomz
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2004, 10:43:28 pm »

Quote from: Ephraim


Regarding your deck:

Biorythm seems kind of random. Yes, it might gain you a lot of life and it might knock your opponent back by a lot, but it also has the potential to sit dead in your hand. I think that slot would be better filled with Parallel Evolotion.

I would consider taking out both City of Traitors and maybe even an Ancient Tomb, for more forests. You're counting on getting some Elves out early, which could be hindered by only having eleven sources of green mana in the deck. More forests also make Rofellos that much better.



I agree with Ephraim that you should take out the City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb as you want green sources of mana early on to play your first turn Llanowar / Fyndhorn Elf.

I would also suggest that you take out the Grim Monolith , Mana Vault and possibly the Sol Ring. You need green sources and you just can't abuse the cheap artifacts until a bit more into the game when it will accelerate your Saproling cards. I see that you generate enough mana to untap the Grim Monolith and Mana Vault but wouldn't you rather spend your mana elsewhere?

And now my answer to your two questions. I believe that Naturalize should be fine , you shouldn't need to splash red just for Artifact Mutation. Your deck would then need to fix it's mana base to accommodate the splash.

Xantid Swarms should be left in the Sideboard as they are pretty much useless if you're playing against aggro.

Also take out a Gaea's Cradle.Three is too much as they are legendary lands meaning you can only have one in play.
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Twitcher
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2004, 02:40:53 pm »

Thanks for the replies.  What do you guys think about Yavimaya Elder? I was originally considering to put him into the deck when I was contemplating putting in a splash of blue or red.  

Also, Should I include fastbond or regrowth?  I playtested a fastbond at last week's fnm and it didn't do much so I doubt it will be going in.

I just realized the text on Caller of the Claw says "non-token", which I didn't see at first and am now not too keen on putting him or the wirewood heralds in.

What are your thoughts on Verdant Force?  He seems to be pretty good and would really shine in multiplayer games with multiple upkeeps.
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Nibble
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 03:50:54 pm »

My friend once made a Saproling deck pretty similar to this, except it was orinigally an Extended deck, and his goal seemed to be much more comboish, whereas yours seems a be a little slower but steadier stream of Saprolings. I'll give you some insight on his card choices, and you can decide if it's too different from your vision of the deck or not.


1. Haste

Having a source of haste for the elves (and druids, but I'll get to that later) can really speed things up. The two choices we boiled it down to were Lightning Greaves and Concordant Crossroads. A quick comparison:

Greaves
Pros: Doesn't give your opponents' creatures haste, can be a tad helpful in protecting a key creature (though that's usually not a big issue)
Cons: Costs 2, doesn't help you swing for the kill any faster

Crossroads
Pros: Costs 1, can help you win a full turn faster (Generation, Symbiosis, Verdeloth, attack, gg in 1 turn instead of 2)
Cons: Gives all your opponents' creatures haste as well (you mentioned playing in multiplayer, where this might become a problem for you)

Basically, if you're not worried about your opponents' creatures getting hasted, Crossroads is the better choice, as it affects your whole Saproling army instead of just helping out the elves. Essentially it's a metagame call, and totally up to you.


2. Cradle Abuse

The elves are nice acceleration, but when you really want to go broken and have fun with this deck, it's Gaea's Cradle that you're looking for. After you've played any sort of Saproling creation, the Cradle far outshines the Priest, and my friend built his deck based on abusing this fact. Krosan Restorer was essential to his build, and this being a Type 1 deck, I'd say a Candelabra of Tawnos would be a good choice as well. With a source of haste on the board, being able to drop a 3cc creature that immediately untaps a 10+ mana producing land is amazing. This is also what makes Crop Rotation excellent, as you can use it on a tapped Cradle and replace it with a Cradle from your deck. Who needs Dark Ritual when you've got 'G: Add GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG to your mana pool.'?  Smile


3. Skullclamp

It's not essential, but if you're going off super-combo-style, it helps to have as much draw as possible. It's also a lifesaver on slow draws when you can't get to 6 mana for CU, or you simply don't draw it. I think it definitely has a place in the deck, but the quantity is pretty flexible.


4. Saproling Supporters

Your Saproling warchief of choice is Verdeloth, who I believe is excellent. However, Nemata, Grove Guardian was the leader of choice for mi amigo, and he proved his worth in many a game. His Saproling creation is noticably less efficient (3-for-1 to Verdeloth's 1-for-1), but his other ability is the real winner. Its biggest advantage seemed to be the following situation, which came up fairly often:

Say on Turn 3, you play a Spontaneous Generation for 5, and that's all you can do. Next turn you topdeck a Cradle and go wild, creating 50 more Saprolings and dropping (Verdeloth/Nemata). Now, the problem is, only 5 of your Saprolings can attack, while your other legions must stand by idle. With Verdeloth, you'd have more Saprolings total, for sure, but you'd only be able to attack for 10. Put Nemata in his place, though, and you can sacrifice as many lackies as you feel like, easily being able to win this turn.

In the end, it's really just a matter of preference and style - do you want to win with an incredible horde of Saprolings, or do fewer but beefier Saprolings suit your fancy? One minor point, and I don't know what you're going up against or anything, but Nemata also helps you survive stupid things like Pyroclasms, Flamebreaks, Earthquakes, etc. Hey, it might come up sometime, you never know.

Want the best of both worlds? 1x Verdeloth the Ancient, 1x Nemata, Grove Guardian, and 2-3x Fierce Empath. Just pick whichever Tree-boy fits your needs at the time.


5. Regrowth

Sure, why not? 4GG to replay a Symbiosis is nothing when you consider you're doubling an already-doubled army, leaving you with a pretty ridiculous board. Also helps make up for the restriction of Crop Rotation, as replaying one of those is always fun - just make sure you still have a Cradle left in the deck when you do. Could be fun with Collective Unconscious as well, just make sure not to accidentally lose. Wink


I think this post has gotten too long already, so I'll shut my trap now. But a few quick final notes:

- If you do decide to try the more broken-combo-ish route, Saproling Burst is pretty weak. 4G for, usually, three 4/4s doesn't help you much at all. When you're abusing the Cradle as much as possible, take quantity over quality anyday.
- If you want to splash red or white for Mutations, it shouldn't be too problematic, just switch out some Fyndhorns for Skyshroud Elves. They're slower, but provide all the mana fixing you'll ever need. Similarly, if you want to add blue, toss in some dual lands and maybe Quirion Elves.
- Never forget, this deck should always remain fun to play. Whether it's just the nature of the deck, or the look on an exasperated player's face when his T1 Fish deck loses to Saprolings (and yes, this did actually happen. the guy was pretty pissed Very Happy), this deck is a good time.

Hope you maybe find something worthwhile in all that rabble. Ehehe..


Edit: Oops, it was an Extended Fish deck after all. But it was funny nonetheless.
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Twitcher
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 09:49:36 pm »

I was originally thinking about the inclusion of regrowth and especially concordant crossroads but couldn't find a spot for them.  I personally didnt't include Nemata because I thought it would be better to just substitute his slots w/ Coat of arms, which give a long-term boost.  

Nibble, if it isn't too much trouble, could you tell me the decklist of your friend's extended deck? I would love to see what similar decks look like. Thanks.
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Nibble
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 11:53:18 pm »

Okay, I found one of his decklists for it, and it's... less optimal than I remembered. But here goes anyway:


// LAND

8x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
4x Wooded Foothills

// ELVES & DRUIDS

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Elvish Herder (mainly a mana dump, I believe)
3x Birchlore Rangers (nice as pseudo-haste and lets Herders and Empaths do something, also lets you splash quite easily)
3x Priest of Titania
3x Fierce Empath
4x Krosan Restorer

// SAPROLING POWAH

4x Spontaneous Generation
4x Saproling Symbiosis
4x Nemata, Grove Guardian

// UTILITY

4x Collective Unconscious
3x Lightning Greaves
4x Crop Rotation


Like I said, looking at it now, it seems far from optimal.. but that's the latest list I could find, and I believe the deck he actually played.

Now that you mention it, I totally agree with you. Verdeloth + Coat of Arms > Nemata pretty much all the time. Maybe 2 of each, and perhaps a couple Empaths if you find you're not drawing Verdeloth often/early enough, and that should really be all the power you need, especially if you choose Crossroads. So what if CoA can't make Saprolings, you should have more than enough to win by the time you're considering playing it. And Coat also pumps your elves quite a bit, which might be useful in a few situations.
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Twitcher
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2004, 10:28:11 pm »

After playtesting against some of my own decks, I have decided that I would like it if the deck was a little more consistent.  I think the answer to this could be to include a couple more ways to make saprolings, something along the lines of spontanteous generation or saproling burst.  Do any of you have anything in mind that could help complement the saproling producers?
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Nibble
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2004, 10:05:02 pm »

Unfortunately, there really aren't any better ways to make saprolings. Rith can do it, but.. he's kinda slow, vulnerable, and very multicolored. Razz

If it's just Generation and Symbiosis that don't seem to be showing up, you could possibly splash red, run Burning Wish, and move a copy of each to the sideboard. (Collective Unconscious, too, if you'd like.) Ups the count from 8 to 10, but not sure if it's really worth it. However, red also gives you access to fun stuff like Artifact Mutation and Wheel of Fortune.

Speaking of Wishes, Living Wish with a copy of Verdeloth and Cradle in the 'board could help consistency if you aren't seeing them enough.

It really is unfortunate that there aren't more ways to produce saprolings en masse.. besides Rith, the best cost-to-Saproling producers seem to be Rith's Charm (3-for-3, but three-color and not really worth the effort) and Saproling Burst (at most, 6-for-5, but they die next turn.. or 5 for two turns..).

By the way, when you were testing, were you using Skullclamp? Seems that it'd help out greatly if you were drawing too many elves and not enough saprolings.
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Twitcher
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2004, 12:39:48 am »

Nope, right now i'm not using skullclamp but collective unconscious.  The deck seems to be getting better.  I'm actually thinking of making space for 4x [card]seedtime[/card].  My meta is extremely control heavy and so I'm wondering if I need it.  This deck is primarily for multiplayer games, so the chances of their being a control deck are pretty great.  I'll also see if I can proxy up and try the living wish idea, that might be useful.  Thanks for the input.
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