Newbie - 2 cards I loved / finding the best deck

[schreier]

First time poster so please don't roast me too badly

I am getting back into magic after a hiatus of like 8 years ... LONG LONG time I know ... I used to love playing a blue/red deck, and I was lucky enough to discover the utility of mana drains back then - so I got them for $2 a piece ...

that being said, I am trying to find my "deck" (i.e. the deck I want to build).  I found beyond domania with the 360 page dissertation on the deck (the control bible) and found it very interesting but then found that the weissman deck is no longer really viable with the fast bulds .... that is pointing me towards either landstill or 4ccontrol ...

Two cards I used to love were drain power and fork ... both 2 casting cost .... both had HUGE effects at time ... I realize both mana being spent are colored, which may cause problems with the 4ccontrol mana base ... but they seem so flexible

Does anyone use these cards anymore?  I've seen a few references to fork (it can work against so many power cards - brain geyser, skeletal scrying, any of the tutors, ancestral recall, decree of justice, hymn, yawgmoths will).  With drain power ... it is blue (can be tossed to force of will), 2 mana should not be a problem ... and with the need for speed ... I would think that an early drain power could be powerful ... at the very least, it HAS to be countered.

I am guessing the fact that drain power is a sorcery is what really stops it ... I guess I just figured I'd ask if anyone had tried it or if it is just TOO slow

Lastly - I've found some good links to decks -- but are there any GREAT links describing everything about these various decks (kinda like the control bible) - breaks down the chosen cards and the left out cards, the playing strategies and thought processes ... generally the lists I've found are just lists with some high level or some card specific discussions.

Thanks
Schreier

[LotusHead]

Drain Power is just awful.  Most decks use plenty of instant speed spells and would only have mana open to counter your spells.  Those that don't have mana availiable are already playing their broken stuff.  Word of Command, from long ago, seemed good on paper, but even then, a player could just use their mana to cast Disenchant on something, leaving you with nothing to do but look at their hand.

Fork, on the other hand, would be great if it were not restricted.  Most decks at most splash for red.  Fork would only really be usable in a mono-red build.

Don't get me wrong, I love Fork.  It sits next to my Copy Artifact in my "I wonder why I don't use this anymore" pile.

Since Fork is a T1 only card, it has to compete with other really really broken cards.  But for a fun night of playing Magic with your pals, Fork away!

Now that you meantion it, Fork may or may not have a place in a sideboard somewhere where Cunning Wishes are used and the deck has RR availiable after casting Wish. Ugh.   See the problem now? Fork is fun, but not much as a 1-of nowadays.

[VGB]

Does anyone use these cards anymore?

Competetively, no.  Many decks need so little land based mana (see Belcher, Draw7, etc.) nowadays that Drain Power is strictly worse than Pentad Prism.  Fork is a neat card, but {R} for a casting cost is prohibitive outside of a red heavy deck, and the competetive decks nowadays that can support it want to prevent their opponent from casting spells rather than relying on them to cast good spells they can copy(see decks with Goblin Welder).

Lastly - I've found some good links to decks -- but are there any GREAT links describing everything about these various decks (kinda like the control bible) - breaks down the chosen cards and the left out cards, the playing strategies and thought processes ... generally the lists I've found are just lists with some high level or some card specific discussions

I generally skip the linked primers, because they are usually outdated quite quickly.  The best decks should have excellent threads in the Type 1 forum that go into card selection justification and other details.

[PucktheCat]

Here are some miscellaneous answers to your miscellaneous questions.

Drain Power:  Mana Drain is just better than this card in around 25 ways.  I seriously doubt there is an effective application of this card in the current metagame.

Fork:  There are several reasons this card is no longer seen, but the biggest is probably the casting cost, as you said.  A situational, reactive card like Fork needs to be castable at almost any time or it becomes way to easy to miss your one opportunity to use it.  Compare Fork with Misdirection.  Misdirection is even narrower than Fork, yet it saw play because when the situation for it came up it was never missed due to lack of mana.

Detailed Primers on decks:  There are a couple of reasons these don't show up too often.  One of the main ones is that they are almost always out of date before you finish writing them.  T1 is a fast moving format these days.  Another reason, of course, is because people don't have time to write them.  The best primers available are archived in the forum second from the top of the index page, but for the reasons listed above they are often incomplete, out of date, or simply don't exist for the deck you are interested in.

The best way to learn about a specific archetype is to find a good, representative build and play it against other good, representive T1 decks.  Don't change the decks, just play them as they are.  Remember, every card in the deck is there for a reason.  Try to figure out what those reasons are.

After that, read some discussion of the deck and it should make more sense to you.  If you still have questions, well, that is when you post them and get answers!

Leo

[schreier]

Thank you all for the quick responses ... the lack of land based mana does make a lot of sense w/ drain power ... it won't tap moxes .... so they still have relatively good mana sources ...

With fork - some spells I mentioned were copying opponents spells ... but you can also copy your own -- a forked time walk, a forked decree (if you have the 2 red, it is much more efficient - it will double the summoned angels), a forked braingeyser, etc .... that being said ... the mana is an issue it seems with the more color versatile decks ...

i will probably try to playtest the fork, but just give up on drain power ...

I will scour the forums -- last question -- there are always arguments going back and forth and back and forth ...

Is 4ccontrol still very viable as a top deck?  Also - I have never seen it explicity defined - I am assuming 4ccontrol is 4color control?  Stupid question I know - but I am 8 years out

Thanks,
schreier

[xrizzo]

Is 4ccontrol still very viable as a top deck? Also - I have never seen it explicity defined - I am assuming 4ccontrol is 4color control? Stupid question I know - but I am 8 years out  

Firstly, I can pick up those $2 mana drains for $4 bucks each, if you are interested.    

4c Control is today's incarnation of 'The Deck.'  It has been known as many different names over the years and serves as many people's pet deck.  Right now, with angels as the win condition, and many maindeck swords to plowshares, it looks a lot more like the weisman control deck way back in its lineage.

It is certainly viable right now, and would be a solid choice to bring to a large tournament because it can literally deal with any threat.  

Yes, 4ccontrol = 4 Color Control.

[schreier]

Thanks again ... just looking through everything, why does no one use the ice age card diabloic vision?  It seems like as good of a search engine as many other cards ...

Casting cost
Blue / Black
Sorcery
Look at the top five cards of your library and put one of the into you hand.  Put the remaining four on top of your library in any order


Is it just that it is a sorcery?  The cost isn't that much -- about the same as demonic tutor considering how many blue mana sources are in a 4ccontrol deck ...

Other cards I am curious about:
Tolarian academy
crucible of worlds
zuran orb
burning wish
dismantling blow

I am guessing:
Tolarian: not enough artifacts to support it w/ general build (but maybe if you add the crucible and zuran)

Crucible of worlds: saw another article -- seems like it may be added

Zuran Orb - not generally used b/c it costs mana producing land

Burning wish - not blue (can't be tossed) and not many sorceries to summon maybe?

Dismantling blow - too expensive maybe?


Also - in the 4ccontrol primer in the primer forum group, it was originally called keeper ... and a find/replace was used to change all "keeper" to "4ccontrol" -- the author stopped using keeper and instead used the term clinger ... and several references make no sense with 4ccontrol - not sure if it is worth editing.

Thanks again!