[deck discussion] 2 land Belcher

[BroganT2]

HI there, I'm new to these fourms but hopefully will be around for awhile. I have just recently knocked the dust off my type 1 stuff. I have been playing other formats for a while. And since I have started play testing for a couple local type 1 tournaments I have really started enjoying type 1 again.

I have a type 1 tournament coming up next month in tacoma its type 1 12 proxies. first place is a lotus, 2nd place is a emerald. So I am trying to pick a deck and I ran across 2 land belcher. Here is the list I have come up with so far.
LAND
tropical
bayou

MANA
4 dark rit ( duress, twist, necro tutors )
4 seething song ( lots of mana fast )
4 pentad prism ( awesome mana fixer, and with moxes its easy to get 2 counters )
4 chromatic sphere
5 moxen
1 chrome mox
1 lotus petal
1 lotus
1 mana vault
1 mana crypt
1 sol ring
1 channel ( turn 1 win almost by itself )
THE KILL
4 blecher

DISRUPTION
4 xswarm ( lots of control around here, this guy first turn can win games
4 duress
1 mindtwist

draw
1 ancestral recall
1 memory jar
2 brainstorm ( I think 2 is the right number? )
1 wheel of fortune
1 windfall
1 necropotence ( good draw 7 )
1 timetwister ( draw 7, gets back all the killed belchers )

utility
1 yawg will
1  timewalk
1 balance ( kills creatures, the deck dumps hand, seems good )
4 chromatic sphere ( mana fixer, draw a card, havin the right color is god
1 Tinker

TUTORS
demonic tutor
vampiric
demonic consultation ( still not sure about this one )
4 land grant ( gets the land out! )

board is still shaky
3 seadtime ( most decks in my field play heavy blue and 1 turn for the combo is good )
4 groundseal ( pwns dragon which is big in this area )
3 stifle ( mean to just about everything )
4 ( blue elemental? kills goblins, apes red stuff )

some of the cards I have thought about adding are

Krak clan Iron works, this card could really make this deck explosive, but it does cost 4 =(

I see keeper being a problem along with Chalice of the void, so some artifact kill could be good like gorilla shaman and oxidize or the scrying green artifact killer, also damping matrix and the like is a problem.

I saw some people play with tinder wall and green wish.. what could you wish for? I guess shaman and workshop/library wasteland? tinderwall? not sure what to take out.

I was also thinking maybe working in a darksteel colosus as another kill card, or tendrills? what should I drop?.

Is wielder that great in this deck? I dont have any but i suppose I could proxy some up and try. Seems like it doesnt really belong.

I hope this power is better than my others, was my first post on TMD, didnt realize!

Thanks for the advice!

[AngryPheldagrif]

Ok, I couldn't find any outstanding 2-land Belcher threads on a cursory search, but I did find this Dulmen-winning list from fairly recently.

1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Spoils of the Vault
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Brainstorm
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Channel
2 Living Wish
3 Goblin Welder
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Tinder Wall
1 Black Lotus
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Chrome Mox
4 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

Sideboard
1 Bone Shredder
1 Deconstruct
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Goblin Welder
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
4 Phyrexian Negator
1 Scavenger Folk
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Uktabi Orangutan

You're missing a lot of key tech such as Goblin Welder, and you've got some really odd choices like Balance, Mind Twist, and Memory Jar. Also, pertaining to your previously closed posts, you need to post coherently and with proper spelling/grammar/etc. You've got a 'shift' key for a reason. Use it. Until you've learned things like that, you should probably stick to the Newbie Forum. It's there for a reason.

Good luck,
-Dan

PS: If I can find some good Belcher threads around here I'll edit in links!

[edit]The site seems to be strangely devoid of any good Belcher discussion, but you might want to read Phil's FAQ on how to post for future reference. Good luck and welcome to TMD.

[rozetta]

The previous Belcher thread is here: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15329

There's 14 pages of posts, so you can read a lot of history, theory and current ideas. The thread is on the 3rd page back from the front page, since it hasn't seen activity for a while.

[Jacob Orlove]

This belongs in newbie.

[Purple Hat]

I believe most current belcher lists have gone to one land in order to avoid the somewhat embarassing, turn one belch: reveal 17 cards, hit land, go.  Opponent's turn: land, mox, nullrod or workshop, trinisphere.  Those games SUCK for the belcher player.  Belcher is fairly easy to play as combo decks go and you don't really need another player to test with since it's all about the goldfish.  That's definately a point in it's favor if you're just trying to pick it up for this weekend.

Hale

[Mathman07]

@ Purple Hat

Trinisphere doesn't stop charbelcher from activating.  It is useless if the Workshop player goes second (or simply doesnt play Trinisphere on the first turn).  Although Trinisphere stops you from playing most of your mana sources (save ESG), I find that you often can just try again.  That said, the real reason for moving to one land is Null Rod.  

@ BroganT2

Welder is the 2nd best non-restricted card in belcher.  Living Wish is also great.  You would wish for welder or Workshop or Ancient Tomb or Scavenger Folk (null rod go bye bye) or even a fetchland or gemstone mine.  Xantid Swarm is another wish target but it really doesn't belong in the maindeck.

Tinder wall is a great mana source, producing RR for welder, among other things.  It is NOT a wish target.

Artifact destruction is necessary for null rod, Oxidize is the card you want, but only one or two.  The maindeck is too tight to fit in oxidize(s).

Chalice of the void isn't bad unless it is combined with other threats AND played on turn one AND if your opponent wins the die roll.  Except for chalice on 3 or 4 (that won't happen).

Your sideboard is way off.  As I have mentioned earlier, the maindeck is very tight, so about 12 wish targets and 3 artifact destruction cards(maybe more if you can cut wish targets) should be the general makeup of the SB.

Tendrils was used as an additional kill card, but it is not very useful.  Darksteel Colossus is almost always dead except for Tinker, so it doesn't merit a spot in the deck.

Mystical tutor to fetch Tinker (or draw 7) is great in the maindeck.  Time Walk is useless - you only have 2 (should be 1) land(s).  

Just say "No" to Seething Song (should be tinder wall) and Pentad Prism (Should be replaced with Cabal Rituals & Living Wish).  Mind Twist also does not belong.  

Xantid Swarm is a wish target and clogs up the maindeck.  Replace with 3 Welders.  The last slot is free, and can be LED, Cabal Ritual, or some other mana source.

Balance is not very helpful.  It doesn't help you play charbelcher and win.  It could go in the sideboard.

That's all, folks.