[ card discussion ] What are the good type 1 cards from 5D?

[BroganT2]

I havent really seen much in the way of deck lists with 5D cards added to them. I was wondering what cards make the grade? Some of the stuff I thought that was pretty good were cards like Pentad Prism and crucible, But other than that I'm really not sure whats good for type 1 out of this set. Maybe the scrying green artifact killer? Krakclan Iron-works?

So what do you guys think is "good" for type 1 from 5D


Thanks!

Brogan

[Ozma]

Crucible's been recycling Wasteland/Strip Mine turn after turn lately, so obviously that's in the good category.  I haven't seen anyone try the Zuran Orb/Fastbond combo with much success, but it's still too early to tell on that.

Serum Visions and Night's Whisper have been in a lot of GAT builds lately.  Helping to keep the AK wars mostly to Hulk mirrors.  Whisper's better until the third AK, and Serum Visions is at least arguably better than Sleight.

Also, Staff of Domination has been showing up in some MUD builds lately.  I haven't seen it played myself, but I've heard it's pretty ridiculous, what with the possible infinite mana with Metalworker and all.

And of course there's the speculation around Ironworks.  I have no idea how well that is or isn't working, but I know lots of people are fiddling with it.

That's the best off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's some other stuff I'm not thinking of.

[Zherbus]

Crucible of Worlds rocked both the Starcitygames tournament and the 44 person Myriad tournament yesterday. Everything else, for the most part, has had minimal effect on the format.

Moved. This is really a question that belongs in newbie due to it's basic nature.

[Sammy]

What about that Salvager/Tinkerer (I think?)->Lotus combo?

[AngryPheldagrif]

What about that Salvager/Tinkerer (I think?)->Lotus combo?

It's. . .being worked on. Newest list will hit the Open T1 in the next 48 hours if we keep on schedule. We're running behind because our other 2 pet decks seem to be a lot better than they should be. And anything that 4-0's Control Slaver deserves a second look.

-Dan

[cardiffgiant]

I think as Skull Clamp gets explored more as a drawing engine, Steelshaper's Gift might get some play. I've heard Plunge into Darkness is being considered for some of the Rector combo decks. I saw a Spark Elemental in a Sligh deck. I've also seen Cranial Plating in a Workshop deck.

[AngryPheldagrif]

I think as Skull Clamp gets explored more as a drawing engine, Steelshaper's Gift might get some play. I've heard Plunge into Darkness is being considered for some of the Rector combo decks. I saw a Spark Elemental in a Sligh deck. I've also seen Cranial Plating in a Workshop deck.

Steelshaper's Gift: Not a chance. It's a bad white tutor that can search for 1 card.

Plunge into Darkness: The interesting one. Warrants further consideration at least.

Spark Elemental: No.

Cranial Plating: Too slow for the most part. Requires an active attacker to do anything. May warrant a second glance at least.

-Dan

[fattony]

What about Night's Whisper?

Message deleted. Only hit the 'sbumit' button once.

[Frappie]

Tony if you scroll up and read what everbody has already said then you will see that your question has already been answered. As for the staff I did see it draw the man using it a good many more cards then normal, however the card was in stacks.

[DEA]

jesus christ
if you think cranial plating is slow, you've never seen it do 17 damage on turn 2 equipped to arcbound crusher
crusher affinity had a goldfish of turn 3 consistently in no small part due to the plating

[cardiffgiant]

WRT Cranial Plating - At the SCG tourney, someone had a Crusher deck with Plating. Fast, consistent, and way harsh.

[Plognark]

I recently placed 1st in a 5 proxy 8 man T1 using metalworker/staff of domination. It's a little buggy...but it has promise as a solid rogue build. I built mine off a sort of stax body without the stax. If I build it again, i'm going to change it around though, perhaps focus on the combo itself rather than as an add-on for stax.

Cranial Plating is pretty nutty. It definately deserves a second glance. It's hideously powerful in a deadbolt deck I saw in action.

The impressive powers of crucible have already been pointed out, and don't need to be mentioned again. I havn't seen anyone brave enough to try a crucible/fastbond deck yet, so I can't say how effective they'd be.

[AngryPheldagrif]

I recently placed 1st in a 5 proxy 8 man T1 using metalworker/staff of domination. It's a little buggy...but it has promise as a solid rogue build. I built mine off a sort of stax body without the stax. If I build it again, i'm going to change it around though, perhaps focus on the combo itself rather than as an add-on for stax.

Cranial Plating is pretty nutty. It definately deserves a second glance. It's hideously powerful in a deadbolt deck I saw in action.

It still requires an attacker and for that attacker to survive. It's also vulnerable to artifact hate. It's really brutal, but it's like using an enchant creature in T1. Curiosity non-withstanding.

The impressive powers of crucible have already been pointed out, and don't need to be mentioned again. I havn't seen anyone brave enough to try a crucible/fastbond deck yet, so I can't say how effective they'd be.

The Crucible/Fastbond/Zuran Orb combo has been pretty much determined worthless. Even worse than Salvagers.

-Dan

[goober]

The Crucible/Fastbond/Zuran Orb combo has been pretty much determined worthless. Even worse than Salvagers.

Actually it is better than Salvagers, because each of the cards is decent alone.   It is also cheaper 3+1+0, compared to 4+1+9.  Combine that with the fact that green is better than white.

[Un4givenKnight]

Actually it is better than Salvagers, because each of the cards is decent alone. It is also cheaper 3+1+0, compared to 4+1+0. Combine that with the fact that green is better than white.

Crucible is in no way better than Salvagers. Salvagers is a much more consistant deck.

@Sammy The card ur thinking of is Trinket Mage, which is another pretty useful 5th Dawn card at least for the Salvagers deck.

Nights Whisper, in my testing at least, has been more useful in GAT than Serum Visions, which i eventually cut for Brainstorms.

[DEA]

[quote="AngryPheldagrif]It still requires an attacker and for that attacker to survive. It's also vulnerable to artifact hate. It's really brutal, but it's like using an enchant creature in T1. Curiosity non-withstanding.[/quote]

it's more like rancor, if you must bring up the enchant creature analogy
cranial plating is typically used in decks with a lot of artifacts
i don't see it as a difficulty for affinity to have an artifact creature in play
the best part is that it hops around for BB

your statement tells me you haven't tested this card at all
i'm never unhappy to draw it when i play crusher affinity
at the very least it absorbs artifact destruction for my other threats
and at best it kills on turn 3
imo a card that's good enough to accelerate your kill that quickly deserves 3 slots, minimum

[TrixR4Kidz]

Combine that with the fact that green is better than white.

No, Green is not better then white at all, White is making another little comeback, did you notice how much Tundras are now, they went up a little bit in price recently sweet cakes.

[goober]

First off, don't call me sweetcakes.

Secondly, I still think Green is better than White.  White has 3 or 4 good cards; Exalted Angel, Balance, Decree of Justice, and Swords.  Green has Food Chain, Oxidize, Artifact Mutation, Pernicious Deed, Dryads, Crop Rotation, Fastbond, Elvish Spirit Guide, Xanthid Swarm, River Boa, and Call of the Herd.  There are probably a few cards I am missing, but this is probably proportional.

The biggest thing to take from that is the goal of each of the colors.  White's cards are good for Control, in the win conditions and Balance's uberness.  Green's are better for Aggro and Combo.  Seeing as this deck will be combo, green is a better option.  Its win condition is defined, so White's 2 best unrestricted cards are dead.

How is Salvagers a more consistant deck?  You can make the same deck, card for card, but replace the Salvagers with Crucible.  It will work the same, and be cheaper.

[Frappie]

After play testing against a night whisper GAT deck we found that any random sligh/aggro (see FCG) deems the whisper useless. sometimes the life loss is too much. I would still say that AK is more useful.

[Plognark]

It still requires an attacker and for that attacker to survive. It's also vulnerable to artifact hate. It's really brutal, but it's like using an enchant creature in T1. Curiosity non-withstanding.

True, it's not exactly tier one, but it's done some damage. It might be better in an affinity build, but I doubt affinity will ever be able to become a force of any measure in T1. I agree that i'd rather drop another threat than a cranial plating; which is why I havn't used them. At least it's a little bit better than an enchant creature which dies when the critter does.

[MrZuccinniHead]

Although, I, too, am not sold on the salvagers deck (even though i was the first to point out the combo in the "Pop a million boners thread"), i believe that goober is wrong.  The zuran orb deck is kinda cliunky compared to salvagers, since salvagers can draw its deck out in search of a win condition with a spellbomb and the zuran orb combo needs another card, like horn of greed, in play.  Salvager's cards ARE useful on their own.  You can hold off small fish with some spellbombs.  Salvagers can recur this for a fee.  And we all know that Black lotus is useful.

The problem, though, is that even if it is better than said crucible combo, that doesn't mean its optimal to type 1, but at least they're trying.

[Mathman07]

@MrZuccinniHead

1

The "zuran orb deck" is actually based on Crucible of Worlds.

2

Crucible's cards are WAY more synergistic than Salvager's - there are multiple 2 card combos within the deck.

You can recur wastelands and fetchlands with crucible, draw cards off lands with horn of greed and trade routes (discard land and then play it); Exploration and Fastbond let you do this multiple times.  And so on... the point is that lands are always good on their own because they provide mana.  

3

Crucible combo has proven itself to some extend (1 tournament win so far).  Call it whatever you like, but so far Crucible has proven to be better than Salvagers.  

4

Salvagers can recur this for a fee

Crucible recurs for free.

@goober

I agree that green > white.  If you look at tournament statistics, green is played more often than white.  Berserk, Channel, Survival of the Fittest, Wild Mongrel, Sylvan Library, Living Wish, Naturalize, Oath of Druids, and Regrowth are a few more good green cards.

@TrixR4Kidz

There are more good (tournament quality) green cards than white ones.

Mono-green decks (Oshawa Stompy, others) are more viable than mono-white ones.  Although White Weenie did win a Dulmen once...

Look at the following top decks that use green:

WTF fish
Tog (both variants)
Landstill (for sb Oath)
Belcher
Draw 7
The Man Show
GAT
Madness
Oshawa Stompy
Crucible Combo
V. Mask
FCG
Dragon


Those that use white:

4cC
some Landstill variants
Salvagers combo
Man Show
Suicide Black*
Other obscure decks

Go figure.

*Actually, some splash green