What happened to Sligh?

[juventus]

OK, I'm very new to type 1, (only been playing for one week,) and I have tried out a few various decks such as four color control, hulksmash, and fish. Being used to type 1.5, I considered the red burn/sligh matchup. They seem horrible for most of the matchups such as 4CC and Hulksmash (in Sligh's favor), and may even beat fish if built correctly. I know that Chalice of the Void was a super hoser against sligh, but I haven't seen it in many decks lately.

Since I don't know how to make type 1 decks very well and I am used to 1.5, this decklist may look a bit awkward.

//Goblin Sligh
//Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Vandals (This seems good to me; I may be wrong though)
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Goblin Piledriver
//Instants/Sorceries
4 Reckless Charge
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
//Artifacts
2 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
//Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
9 mountain

Does this deck show promise? Or, is it not played for a reason a newbie like me would miss?

[yugg]

It's a shame you're running such few mountains, because you're missing out on fireblast.  But I understand the concept of thinning out your lands so you only draw burns.


Some ideas.

Spark elemental.  3/1 haste for R.  That's = to lightning bolt on 1st turn.

You could easily take out the goblin piledrivers for 4 spark elementals.

I would also take out the reckless charges and put in 4 reckless abandons.

They are the same thing as a gobby gernade (4 damage though), but for any creature.

I dunno about price of progress, it's a good card and probably very useful in T1, but I'm not sure if it's worth the slots instead of a card like fireblast.

[Frappie]

Juventus: Don't ever think about removing the piledriver's from your deck you will slow down incredibly. As for spark elemental, that is a bad idea. The whole turn one you do three damage all lightning bolt style is great...... on turn one only. On 4-6 turn do you really want to drop the spark and hope for three? You could remove the 2 vandals for 2 gempalm incinerator. The incinerator could fit in the deck because it allows removal as long as you have goblins and most likely you will have two or three goblins in play. Another thing to consider is the inclusion of Lotus Petal. That extra mana turn one is a huge boost and the more likely that you have a ton of creatures at the end of your first turn the more likely it is that you will win. As for the Goblin Grenade I'm in the process of testing that one. Will let you know the results.

On a side note have you looked into Food Chain Goblins? It can be budget depending on how many Taiga's you have. There is currently a forum in the newbie forum regarding it. My list is on the second page. I would highly suggest that you start there if you want to learn Food Chain.

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18479

[juventus]

On a side note have you looked into Food Chain Goblins? It can be budget depending on how many Taiga's you have. There is currently a forum in the newbie forum regarding it. My list is on the second page. I would highly suggest that you start there if you want to learn Food Chain.

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18479

Frappie:Yes, I know what the deck food chain goblins is and I actually have the 1.5 version of the deck card for card. And, don't worry, I disagreed with everything yugg said and I am still not sure if it was a joke post.

As for FCG, what does it have over goblin sligh? Faster win if it combos and doesn't die to chalice (not sure if there are any other advantages). Fact is, Goblin Sligh is much more consistent, and only kills a turn or two slower. It does not die to counters, and makes wasteland suck. It also doesn't get hands with only land, acceleration, and food chains or incinerators. Goblin sligh is known for getting the same hands every game: 1-2 land, 2-3 creature, 2-3 sorceries/instants.

[jpmeyer]

FCG doesn't die to counters, since now not only is Lackey a must-counter, but Recruiter and Warchief are as well.

[johnstown713]

Oh man, I just had to laugh when I heard someone would take out Goblin Piledriver for Spark Elemental.???(WTF)  By the way it is a dead card in the mid and late game.  Anyway, you should consider Siege-Gang Commander.  It is a very good card and when I played this deck it was very good to me.  When things start to slow down it is reusable burn or if a goblin chump blocks then you just throw it at something.  Goblin Grenade is a good card and is a solid 5 damage.  The two maindeck null rods are an interesting choice and yet they seem to fit very well.  

Do you have any information for us as to what other people in your area like to play.  This can help us with card choices for your deck.

Lastly, Welcome to the sweetest format ever.

Johnstown713

[juventus]

Thanks for the welcome Johnstown,

I contemplated putting siege gang in, and I chose not to and here is why: pretty much, there are only 20 mana sources in the deck of these 19 stay in play. Additionally, fetches will be thinning out your deck. This means that hitting 5 mana will be difficult, and when I do, it is an easy mana drain/daze target. Pretty much that leaves siege gang completely useless without lackey. I just find it too situational, because lackey is definitely the biggest FOW target, or any counter for that matter.

As for what decks I am expecting to go up against, I really have no clue (but you might). You see, I started playing T1 because I am planning on attending a T1 tournament at millenium on August first where the winner gets a timetwister. The tournament allows 10 proxies so that may give you a clue as to what decks I will see.

BTW, I have already decided on playing Fish, this deck is for my friend.

[Plognark]

Sligh can sometimes catch people off guard....but frankly, goblins are more consistent in T1, even if you don't do food chains. There are no fewer than 12 must-counter goblins in a goblin build: Lackey (SCARY!!), Recruiter, and piledriver, and ringleader and warchief are pretty scary as well.

If you're sick of food chains, swap them out, perhaps, for more goblins, or some burn?

Oh, and in current T1, PoP is incredibly good, and you could easily justify running 4.

Fireblast is a good card, and i've seen many games won by it, but it can be a risky move with misdirection, daze, and force of will everywhere.

[Frappie]

So here is what I see. If you are close to the proxy limit this may sound bad but I have found recently that null rod is not a good board against anything but TPS/Slaver. having it main deck I could only see it as slowing you down. If your casting Null Rod then your not dealing damage. It's one less critter/one less burn spell. I think that it could be better played as Mana Crypt/2x Seige Gang.
+1 Mana Crypt
+2 Siege-Gang Commander
-2 Null Rod
-1 Goblin Vandal

What is your sideboard like?
Here is a sample that is pretty strong
4 Null Rod
4 REB
2 Goblin Vandal
2 Artifact Mutation
3 Blood Moon
This board is from a Food Chain build so the art mutations could be replaced with rack and ruin/shattering pulse. Slice and dice could be played in it as a board option against fish. And this may sound like an odd option but I have not tried Ywendh Efreet-3/6 RRR and its drawback is that it blocks half the time. That is all I have now.

[Frappie]

So here is what I see. If you are close to the proxy limit this may sound bad but I have found recently that null rod is not a good board against anything but TPS/Slaver. having it main deck I could only see it as slowing you down. If your casting Null Rod then your not dealing damage. It's one less critter/one less burn spell. I think that it could be better played as Mana Crypt/2x Seige Gang.
+1 Mana Crypt
+2 Siege-Gang Commander
-2 Null Rod
-1 Goblin Vandal

What is your sideboard like?
Here is a sample that is pretty strong
4 Null Rod
4 REB
2 Goblin Vandal
2 Artifact Mutation
3 Blood Moon
This board is from a Food Chain build so the art mutations could be replaced with rack and ruin/shattering pulse. Slice and dice could be played in it as a board option against fish. And this may sound like an odd option but I have not tried Ywendh Efreet-3/6 RRR and its drawback is that it blocks half the time. That is all I have now.

[juventus]

I agree with adding 2 siege gangs for null rods, but mana crypt seems useless to me. Only Siege Gang and flashback reckless charge require 2 colorless.

BTW, Should Null Rod also be taken out of the Fish main-deck?

Also, do you have any idea of the decks I should expect to see/look out for?

[johnstown713]

Mana Crypt is better suited for FCG.  This deck would only require the Mox Ruby, Lotus, and maybe Lotus Petal.  The Crypt is not necassary and you are not trying to combo out the opponent so it is almost useless.  You already gain advantage and tempo from having little red guys that deal damage and burn.  The Crypt will just hurt you more then it helps, unless or course you are splashing for shrapnel blast!!! :shock:

Johnstown713

[CoBra]

Here in Italy Sligh is a good choice as a budget deck; we usually don't run Proxy tournaments so our metagames happens to be really wide: from Hulks and 4cc to TPS to WS.dec reaching even White Weenies (And LLLs, Fish, Zoo...).
This means that no archetype has a huge amount of auto-loss, and no-one is too weird
What i'm gonna do is throwin' in a couple of lists of what Sligh is meant to be in Italian metagame, hoping  you can find some useful idea for your own deck. Probably you couldn't use either of these lists as is, but maybe there is some good hint...

This list got 2nd in a 46-people tourney in Genova on 05/30/04:

MAIN DECK
1 [card]Strip Mine[/card]
4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
4 [card]Mishras Factory[/card]
2 [card]Bloodstained Mire[/card]
2 [card]Wooded Foothils[/card]
8 [card]Mountain[/card]
3 [card]Grim Lavamancer[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Vandal[/card]
4 [card]Jackal Pup[/card]
2 [card]Gorilla Shaman[/card]
2 [card]Goblin Cadets[/card]
4 [card]Pyrostatic Pillar[/card]
4 [card]Chain Lightning[/card]
4 [card]Lightning Bolt[/card]
2 [card]Pyrokinesis[/card]
4 [card]Incinerate[/card]
4 [card]Price of Progress[/card]
3 [card]Null Rod[/card]

SIDEBOARD
4 [card]Red Elemental Blast[/card]
3 [card]Bottle Gnomes[/card]
1 [card]Pyrokinesis[/card]
3 [card]Tormods Crypt[/card]
2 [card]Mogg Salvage[/card]
1 [card]Viashino Eretic[/card]
1 [card]Pulverize[/card]

While this one got 8th ina a 44-people tourney in Genova on 03/14/2004:

MAIN DECK
12 [card]Mountain[/card]
4 [card]Mishras Factory[/card]
1 [card]Ghitu Encampment[/card]
1 [card]Strip Mine[/card]
4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
4 [card]Incinerate[/card]
4 [card]Lightning Bolt[/card]
2 [card]Chain Lightning[/card]
4 [card]Price of Progress[/card]
3 [card]Goblin Cadets[/card]
4 [card]Jackal Pup[/card]
3 [card]Goblin Vandal[/card]
2 [card]Gorilla Shaman[/card]
2 [card]Dwarven Blastminer[/card]
4 [card]Pyrostatic Pillar[/card]
4 [card]Null Rod[/card]

SIDEBOARD
3 [card]Pyrokinesis[/card]
2 [card]Crash[/card]
3 [card]Bottle Gnomes[/card]
2 [card]Rack and Ruin[/card]
1 [card]Pyroblast[/card]
4 [card]Red Elemental Blast[/card]

As you can see, these are not Goblin-Based lists (they both run a pretty fair amount of combat creatures) and aren't "brain-dead-playing" decks.
Here we use to pack a bit of control even in Sligh (Null Rods, WaStrips, Pillar) to give this deck a chance against Combo and Control: it's almost impossible being faster than a well built DARgon or TPS, so you have to slow it down while you beat it. Pillar showed to be a great card against almost any blue-based deck and, if wisely played, it hurts our opponent far more than ourselves.
I'm stopping here, for the moment.
Hope you can get something useful from my post. Elseway, i hope i didn't annoyed anyone
Greetings from Italy

[Trofast]

What about Ankh of Mishra?
If put out on turn 1 or 2 it's good for at least 4 damage during the game. It's frustrating too  

[CoBra]

What about Ankh of Mishra?
If put out on turn 1 or 2 it's good for at least 4 damage during the game. It's frustrating too  

I think this to be an heavy manabase-dependant choice:
If you run plenty of Mountains, Ankh can be a good card. On the other hand, it is definitely a bad card if you pack Fetchlands (too much damage to yourself), WaStrips or Manlands (Since you will likely need to play any lands you draw to replace the ones you get to lose, one way or another)

[AngryPheldagrif]

What about Ankh of Mishra?
If put out on turn 1 or 2 it's good for at least 4 damage during the game. It's frustrating too  

I think this to be an heavy manabase-dependant choice:
If you run plenty of Mountains, Ankh can be a good card. On the other hand, it is definitely a bad card if you pack Fetchlands (too much damage to yourself), WaStrips or Manlands (Since you will likely need to play any lands you draw to replace the ones you get to lose, one way or another)

It's really bad with the Fetchlands, but Strip effects are golden with it. They take 2, then lose the land. You can soak up the damage a lot easier than they can.

-Dan

[DEA]

they're usually on a faster clock because they're taking damage from your other threats
it's actually quite fun to see people fetch, and have the land wasted