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Author Topic: Alzor's Thought Sphere  (Read 1975 times)
Alfred
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« on: July 21, 2004, 02:09:54 am »

Alzor's Thought Sphere
4
Artifact

Discard two cards from your hand: draw a card.
1, Put the top ten cards of your library in the graveyard: draw a card.
2, Sacrifice <cardname>: Draw a card.

I wanted to aggressively price this. Is 4 mana too low for such effects?


Current Wording

Thought Sphere
3
Artifact

1, Discard two cards from your hand: draw a card.
Sacrifice Thought Sphere: draw a card.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2004, 02:31:43 am »

It is an interesting idea, but I think it's a little bit busy. With so many ways to use this to draw cards, it's almost bound to be too good. None of the draw abilities seem, in themselves, brutally powerful. Putting them all together on a single card is both ineligant and too strong.

Look at other artifact card drawers. Jayemdae Tome for example, costs {4} to cast and costs {4},{T} to activate. Certainly, your card is much better than Jayemdae Tome.
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Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2004, 02:33:02 am »

The milling and card drawing ability could be pretty broken.  I think that the 4cc is good enough to stop it from getting out of control, though.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2004, 08:35:28 am »

Actually, this seems like it could get pretty stupid in Workshop decks.
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Alfred
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2004, 12:47:44 am »

Maybe putting the activation of the second ability to 2 mana would be a good idea.
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Ephraim
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LordZakath
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2004, 03:48:00 am »

1. I still think the card is too busy, even if you weaken any of the abilities. It still is an artifact that provides three ways to draw cards. The first ability alone makes this an incredible Madness enabler. With a lot of Madness decks packing Wonder, Genesis, sometimes Anger, and Roar of the Wurm, even the second ability has the potential to be stupid with Madness.

2. If I can direct your attention for a moment to Phil and Anthony's article at SCG, I would like to point out the section that cautions against overly synergistic mechanics. That alone cautions me that putting two abilities on a single artifacts that further enable a pair of overly synergistic abilities (namely Madness and Flashback) is a bad idea.

3. Experience shows that artifacts are not supposed to be particularly good at drawing cards. Typically, they're mediocre at best, even in a deck designed to abuse them (see: Serum Tank). On the contrary, this artifact seems very good at drawing cards.

4. Arc-Slogger has demonstrated that milling oneself for ten cards is a small price to pay for a small, but potentially game-breaking effect. For some decks, the ten cards are the actual effect and the card-draw is a pleasant side effect.

(Late comment) I just re-read Arc-Slogger and I've had to readjust my mindset a little bit. I just realized how powerful either Arc-Slogger or this would be if they moved the cards to the graveyard. Not only would they be dangerous Threshold and Flashback enablers, but they'd be totally broken with Gaea's Blessing. For this card to be even a little bit fair, the cards must be removed from the game. I concede that this renders my arguments regarding Threshold and Flashback somewhat void, but they'll remain in place, to show how dangerous this can be even if it isn't being used in conjunction with Gaea's Blessing, which it would be.

All of these things lead me to conclude that you need to scale this card down a little bit. I do not think that it would be out of line to give it one of the first two abilities, but not both. With that said, if you do tone it down, the ability can be made nominally better. For example, I don't think that either of the abilities needs a mana activation cost. In fact, I don't think that the sacrifice effect would require a mana cost either. I also think that with just one of the possible abilities, you could lower the mana cost. I would readily go for either of the following two ideas:

Thought Sphere
{3}
Artifact

Discard two cards from your hand: Draw a card.
Sacrifice ~this~: Draw a card.

OR

Thought Sphere
{3}
Artifact

Remove the top ten cards of your library from the game: Draw a card
Sacrifice ~this~: Draw a card.

***

On two somewhat unrelated notes, you need a current wording post. Also, who the heck is Alzor? Is there any reason why his name has to be attached to this card? As shown in my mockups above, I think this is just cleaner looking as "Thought Sphere."
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 12:17:52 am »

Ephraim has some excellent suggestions. Basically, the two for one ability and the ten for one ability are each enough to make their own card--combining them is just awkward and unnecessary (and probably too good). However, discarding two cards to draw one without a mana cost is just setting off alarm bells in my mind. That effect should cost at least 1.
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Alfred
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 03:44:09 pm »

I like Ephiraim's first suggestion.

Are you sure Jacob? I think discarding two cards for a card wouldn't be that good. Perhaps you are right, Changes made.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2004, 03:55:01 pm »

Pretty much every ability that says "draw a card" without a mana or a tap cost has led to an engine of some kind. It's just too easy to abuse that mechanic. Adding a cost of 1 ensures that the card isn't just broken.
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2004, 08:17:28 pm »

I liked the "ten cards" ability a lot better than either of what's on there now. Now it's not really anything we didn't see in Compulsion and such variants.
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