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Author Topic: Need Help Converting Combo Deck!  (Read 1957 times)
6030
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« on: July 22, 2004, 09:40:10 pm »

First off I'll need to say I've never played type 1 before, BUT I have been reading articles on it and threads on this site for a while now. And I am familar with all the major archtypes.
          Now with that out of the way I'd like to present the deck I need to help converting from MD5 Block to Type 1. At first I tryed converting it on my own and put all kinds of broken stuff in it ( Ancestral Recall, Yagmoth's Bargain/Will etc.), but I found I couln't manage the change between the mana and tutors engine. Here is the MD5 deck for refrence:
   Roaring Fireworks:
The Engine:
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Roar of Reclamation
4 Second Sunrise

Setting up the combo/ The Draw:
4 Fabricate
4 Serum Visions
4 Temporal Cascade
2 Thirst for Knowledge

The Finisher:
2 Fireball

Mana/ Fixers:
4 Talisman of Progress
4 Gilded Loctus
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den

      The deck is obviously combo and abuses Roars and Sunrises with Ironworks to make lots of mana and card draw then finish the opponent with a Fireball for 20.
     
 Here's a Card by card analysis of what needs to stay:
      Ironworks: obviously the Heart of the deck producing so much mana has never been so easy.
      Sunrise/Roar: The soul of the deck these function as pseudo Yagmoth's Wills. 4 of is a must.
      Fabricate, Visions, Cascade, and TfK: all of these can be updated with better versions
      Fireball: A good finisher in MD5 bad in type 1 needs to be replaced, but I don't know how well spells like Tendrills of agony would work in this spot.
     Mana/Fixers: The arti lands and Nexi can be replaced with moxen. I think the 4 Loctus/Sphere need to stay for reasons I'll explain below.

     Notes on deck: When I first started testing this deck in MD5 I found the fundamental flaw in Ironworks: Combo deck need colored mana. At first I used Gemstone Array, but then I descovered Gilded Loctus and never looked back. It means Ironworks can get you all the colored mana you need. The Spheres are an excellent fixer and with the "Wills" they become massive card draw engine.
  Suggestions and comments are appreciated!
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VGB
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2004, 09:49:43 pm »

3 card combo alert.

Sorry, those don't work in T1.

In order for a combo greater than 1 card to work, the pieces need to be good outside the combo, or cost zero mana.
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Marton
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2004, 10:22:22 pm »

I will second what VGB said. You cannot hope to make a competitive combo deck that takes over 2 cards. Even worse, your combo gets destroyed by null rod, which is very very casually used card in either maindecks or sidebords.
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6030
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2004, 10:28:25 pm »

It's not not really a 3-card combo since it's just Ironworks+ Sunrise/Reclamation and that allows you to play daw such as Cascade or get lots of cards by reoccuring Spheres. Memory Jar would really be insane in this deck. The combo overall in my MD5 experice is very reliable as it's more of a loop than a combo.

On Null Rod what are good solutions for it? Would I be better to use Duress of Nod rod or something else?
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yugg
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2004, 03:40:43 am »

Oh man, I'm sorry, but you're deck is really on the slow side.  It's really not T1.


If you want to turn it into a T1 deck you're going to have to put a lot of money into it and even without power, it's going to be expensive.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=judge/resources/sfrtype1


That's the T1 banned and restricted list.  Make an attempt to buy everything on the restricted list.
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Frappie
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2004, 09:13:50 am »

yugg: thats got to be the most useless thing that I've seen on the drain that I didn't post myself.

6030: I would start by removing anything that is deemed clunky, i.e. second sunrise and roar of reclamation. Next I would think about bringing in the moxen. Your deck seems to rip thru a ton of spells so you could replace the fireball with a:Tendrils of Agony, or if you wanted to keep burning for 20 try Kaervek's Torch.

I would replace one of the thirst for knowledge with an ancestral recall. then i would take out the four fabricates and replace with 1 demonic tutor 1 yawgmoth will 1 tinker (can find that ironworks/memory jar)and 1 Memory Jar. Temporal Cascade is way too much mana. replace it with 1 mind's desire 2 Hurkyl's Recall ( this will allow you to defend yourself against null rod and allow you to up your spell count for desire/tendrils if you bring all your moxes to your hand.) 1 Timetwister. Gilded Lotus would definetly need to come out for something great, like black lotus. so dump the the G-Loti replace with 1 B-Loti, 1 Lotus Petal, 1 Mox Diamond, and now that your getting more mana you can run 1 yawg bargain. Serum visions is a good card in block the problem is that it dosn't do the same as brainstorm. replace with 4x brainstorms. Blinkmoth Nexus is another great example of a good block card but can't stand up to Mishra's Factory. Ok so now that the combo is in place we can start looking for some protection for it. I think that the talisman's should be replaced by 2 Abeyance, at the very least its a cantrip however it stops people from forcing/ stifling the desire/ tendrils. Also Wasteland is a very hot card
so replacing some of the lands with basic lands is a good idea. alright another problem with the deck is now that with all the card draw 4x krark-clan ironworks, may be too many.
Ok so here is the deck that I am suggesting.

The Engine:
2 Krark-Clan Ironworks
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Abeyance

Setting up the combo/ The Draw:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth Will
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Twister
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

The Finisher:
2 Kaervek's Torch
2 Tendrils of Agony

Mana/ Fixers:
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Saphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
2 Chromatic Sphere
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta (Flooded Strand would do the same)
4 Tundra
3 Island

Also you need to think about a Sideboard.
As for spending alot of money I realize that I used 8 of the P9 so if you don't own the power now then you may only be able to play in ten proxy events.
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Silverdragon
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2004, 09:48:02 am »

I'd further cut the Ironworks from Frappie's list...
...because with only about 16 artifacts worth sacrificing to Ironworks it is not needed anymore.
So we end up with what looks like a bad Tendrils-combo deck.

I think like you said you need some broken stuff but if you want to keep the core you mentioned (which i think is Ironworks and Roar/Sunrise) it will just be too slow for the format and lacks disruption of any kind.
I appologize if this was a bit harsh but in my opinion this is unfortunately not a deck that can be converted to t1 without completely changing the engine.
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MrZuccinniHead
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2004, 06:51:08 pm »

i agree with silver dragon.  Ironworks is 4 mana and doesn't do anything except net mana.  Academy rector is 4 mana and doesn't do anything except win you the game.
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