Night's Whisper in Mono Black Dragon?

[dicemanx]

Doomsday Dragon is incomparable to regular Dragon. Doomsday versions do not need mass redundancy, and can be more control oriented.

That's all I can say for now .

[BreathWeapon]

I think the Crop Rotation question as been answered; however, I am not sure why anyone is excited about Doomsday for B/G Dragon. First, it has no synergy with any type of reanimation gameplan; therefore, it would be sided out very frequently. Secondly, it requires three black mana to cast! That means you probably gonna need Dark Ritual and Doomsday in your opening hand for it to be worthwhile, and even if it does resolve it doesn’t guarantee anything other than if you run into any trouble you will lose the game. (This is because in most cases it would be a set-up card for a turn two animate or swarm; however, by turn two your opponent is very likely to be able to counter animates or remove swarms, thus leaving you with a short lifespan and very little resources.) Maybe I am missing something here, and if I am please educate me, but I just can’t see Doomsday being a worthwhile card to invest testing time into.

I have no problem with sideboarding out Doomsday and even Spoils to turn the deck into pseudo ReAnimator from the board. What impresses me is the threat density Death Wish creates by stacking your deck. You can simply throw Animate after Animate at them in secession or a myriad of Swarms. If Rit-Doomsday or Lotus-Doomsday goes off your opponent is in deep trouble. It also makes the deck unbelievably consistant.

This is just the logical extreme of Doomsday, I'm sure DiceManX is working feverishly on a U/b/g Doomsday Dragon swapping Off Color Moxen for Rituals etc as we speak. I'm not sure if that approach will be legitimate, but it'll be damn interesting to see.

[cssamerican]

Dicemanx, I do understand with Doomsday that you would be able to play Dragon without the mass redundancy normally required; however, then you become dependent on Doomsday resolving. Most combo decks would love to be as redundant as Dragon but because of restrictions or the nature of the deck it isn't possible, so why are Dragon players excited about moving away from redundancy?

BreathWeapon, the current oracle wording for Doomsday is as follows:
Search your library and graveyard for five cards and remove the rest from the game. Put the chosen cards on top of your library in any order. You lose half your life, rounded up.
I would assume that you would be missing several peices of the combo from your hand, otherwise there would be no reason to play Doomsday. So that means most of the five cards in the library will be combo peices and not animate on top of animate spells. So I think your logic is a little flawed when it comes to that. You also run the possibility of crap like this happening to you.

Turn 1
Swamp
Mox Jet
Dark Ritual
Doomsday (Stack your deck with Bazaar, Dragon, Animates, and win condition)
Pass to opponent
Opponent plays Island and passes

Turn 2
You draw Bazaar
Play Bazaar
Tap Bazaar drawing two cards, and discarding the Dragon
Tap Swamp and Mox
Cast Animate
In response opponent taps Island and cast Ancestral Recall targeting you for the win.

Granted I just tested a couple of games last night, but this actually happened in one of them, and while I admit it isn't likely it does open another way for you to lose. But even more common was just stuff like FoW the first animate, Mana Drain the second animate which then caused me to lose on my draw step.

I am not saying Doomsday is going to be horrible, but at the same time I can't see how it’s going to be great either. For example, in BUG Dragon how is Doomsday better Lim-Dul's Vault? The Vault is one less in cc, it is an instant, and it has no drawback that could result in a game loss.

[dicemanx]

Most combo decks would love to be as redundant as Dragon but because of restrictions or the nature of the deck it isn't possible, so why are Dragon players excited about moving away from redundancy?

It's not that Doomsday is the next step in the evolution of Dragon. I was merely suggesting that Doomsday decks will be much different from the current heavily redundant Dragon decks, but not necessarily better. Doomsday allows you to play some better quality cards rather than a large amount of random pile of jank cards that somehow come together and win.

And your game play examples are duly noted, but Doomsday isn't necessarily trying to race like mad to combo out asap. A little bit of prep work might be necessary. One must also keep in mind that Doomsday is really a "combo" all by itself, which makes it quite appealing.

[kill doug]

mono black dragon is hard to pull off splashing a color has to be done.  In my old (budget) build i even had 4 color dragon with no white at all.

Black was for animates,Buried alive ,Dark rituals ,Duress the normal stuff.  

Blue was for draw (no counters) Ancestral, Walk, Careful study.

Green was for the board Xantids, Deeds Win you so many games its not even funny.

This was my little twist on the deck throwing in red for one card SHIVAN HELLKITE This card is the best win condition for dragon, no questions about it. Gets rid of pesky platinum angels and other goodies they have on the board, not only that but its very good to animate by itself in the fish match up.

The 4 color mana base is hard to maintain but not all colors are needed in every match up. Knowing what color to go for when is based upon your hand mostly but also your match up.(EXAMPLE) Going for a laqutus kill aganist a active welder is stupid as well as pointless. Then you realize that beats from an angel kill you. Or if R/G beats gets a quick start enough to get you down to 3 or so by 2-3 turn(Hey its possible).All your win are  to slow say if he has a bolt in hand.(I know this is pushing it but this exact thing happened to me)Hellkite is a life saver...

[BreathWeapon]

Sure Doomsday has its problems, but doesn't every card in Magic? The fact that you can lose to EOT Ancestral is actually pretty cool

You really do need to play with Doomsday a lot to see all of the possibilities, past gold fishing. Most of the time I will have an Animate in hand along with either 1 of the three key cards, Dragon, Swarm or Bazaar. So, you can usually afford to stack 2 Animates and use the 1 in hand to run them out of Counters.

I'm not having a difficult game vs Keeper or Mono U right now, neither of them seem to be packing specific hate tho'. Finding a way around Chalice seems to be the imperative, so sneaking in a Necromancy or boarding 4xOxidize (which you should really do anyway) seems mandatory.

I don't think Doomdsday is going to do much in BUG Dragon, losing redundancy destroys the decks Tempo vs Control.

I definately think it belongs in Spoils-Dragon tho', I never liked Necromancy with out Moxen and the ESG->Swarm synergy is too important for the deck.