Wacky graveyard feeder - Devourer of Carrion

[dandan]

I thought that it would be cool to have a Black creature that feeds off cards going to the graveyard. The problem is that it seems very hard to draw the line between it sucking and being Togriffic. Here are the design concepts/constraints

1. The creature starts with 0 power
2. It gains power by devouring cards going to/in the graveyard
3. It is very black so BB should be in the CC. 1BB for a 0/2 or 0/3 seems reasonable.

Choices
1. Devours cards going to or in the graveyard or both?
2. How many cards per point of power?
3. Permanent counters or temporary boost
4. Activation cost or not?

The first draft was

Devourer of Carrion
1BB
Creature - Horror
Remove a card from your graveyard: This gets a +1/+1 counter
0/2

Obviously madly overpowered and very Tog-like.
Changing it to a temporary power boost makes it even more Tog like and still overpowered IMHO although not widly overpowered (much weaker than Tog early on).

I like the idea of permanent counters but that needs serious limiting. The obvious answer is to only give counters when it eats a creature.  The idea of +1/0 counters would solve power issues but Wizards have moved away from non +1/+1 counters and as a veteran of FE I understand this!

So where are we?

Devourer of Carrion
1BB
Creature - Horror
Remove a creature card from your graveyard: This gets a +1/+1 counter
0/2

Still waaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong. Get a 3/5 for 3 mana if you have 3 creatures in the graveyard.

We need to limit its power. Obviously adding 1 mana to the activation cost (or B) would help but that is a bit stale and hardly in flavour. The beastie likes eating rotting flesh. How about it devours everything that goes to the 'yard but only old meat helps it grow?


Devourer of Carrion
1BB
Creature - Horror
Remove a creature card in your graveyard from the game: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~.
If a creature card would be put into any graveyard, remove it from the game instead.
0/2

Changes
Bram - improved wording
Ephraim - improved wording

I thought about making it just your graveyard but I thought making it all graveyards was more flavourful and more interesting (of course it begs the question 'Why can't it eat creatures in other graveyards?'). It has now moved from being a Tog to being a Lhurgoyf although the graveyard hate makes it distinct from the 'goyfs.

[Sheera]

I don't like how this comes into play during mid-game and suddenly becomes a 10/12 monster all of sudden. How about making its first ability a triggered one:

"At the end of each turn (just "your turn" probably makes this grow too slowly), remove a (type/color restriction?) card in a (or just "your"?) graveyard from the game. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~."

I'd also get rid of the second ability then, since you could easily solve all power issues by modifying the parameters in brackets.

[dandan]

Mortivore  Creature - Lhurgoyf [*/*]   2BB    
Mortivore's power and toughness are each equal to the number of creature cards in all graveyards. B: Regenerate Mortivore.  

This is an existing card and generally regarded as balanced. My suggestion costs 1 mana less, doesn't regenerate, doesn't count opponents creatures and doesn't grow in power as creatures die after it comes into play. Mortivore does start with a base toughness of 0 but I think you would agree that that is hardly an issue.

So for one mana more you get about double the size (much much more in multiplayer) and regeneration. Is my suggestion that powerful? No
Could it be good? Yes Could it be very good? Yes

Note that it is a Black card that hoses graveyards. That makes a nasty anti-synergy with lots of good black cards.

[Bram]

I don't like how this comes into play during mid-game and suddenly becomes a 10/12 monster all of sudden.

Eep. How often do you have 10 creatures in your graveyard mid-game? Seems to me like if you have 10 critters in the yard, you're either doing something wrong or you have a wacky combo deck.

Also: has the point that this is absolutely useless as a first turn card (off, say, a ritual) been discussed? You just can't get critters in the yard at all with this baby around.

Also: Remove a creature card from your graveyard ---> remove a creature card in your graveyard from the game.

[rvs]

I have a better idea.

Word it like this:

Whenever a card goes to the graveyard, ~this~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

That way, it gets bigger if you feed your graveyard, but only until end of turn. That should keep togrifficaness away.

[dandan]

First Tog, then Mortivore now you want it to be a bad Khabal Ghoul? Actually I misread your suggestion and thought it was any creature card. Any card? That is just asking for a combo creature as any self respecting aggro deck wouldn't pay 3 mana for a creature that needs 2 cards to go to the graveyard to make it have the power of a Pearled Unicorn until the end of turn.

To be honest I want this guy to eat dead creatures and I like the idea of him stopping graveyards from filling up. I could make him stop creature cards from filling graveayrds I guess. However I want to avoid going too close to Lhurgoyf as eating any dead creature to get a +1/+1 counter makes him a de facto 'goyf.

I think I'll change the Planar Void effect into Planar void for creatures......

[Bram]

Yeah, but this way it's still only effective if you already HAVE a pile of critters pushing up the daisies. Is that what you want for this?

[dandan]

It doesn't actually need a pile of critters. I'm fine with a 1/3 to 3/5 for 3 mana with a usual graveyard (assumes you wouldn't cast it with an empty graveyard). I think it has the potential to be strong and the ability to hose graveyards would probably be the main reason to play the guy anyway. I don't need brutally effective and I DO need a definite power drop from the mighty Mortivore as he costs 1 mana more.

Just because I am dandan doesn't mean that I can't make weak cards. Besides I think this guy will be good often enough to amuse casual players and it is reasonable in Limited where decks usually have more creatures and creature combat is more common.

The thought of someone Ritualling this out to hose Dragon has some appeal. 0/2 forever!!

[Ephraim]

I like the argument for this card's usefulness in limited. It's an apt point that somebody holding onto this in a draft might make seemingly reckless attacks for several turns, only to drop this and have a 6/8 behemoth. Not a bomb in limited, because it requires commitment to filling one's graveyard, but certainly not a weak card, either. Would this card be made an uncommon or a rare, do we think? I'm guessing rare, because of it's potential, but then again, WotC did print Psychatog as an uncommon.

[Bram]

There's no real need for our card creator to concern themselves with stuff like card rarity

Even so: I myself could envision this in an uncommon slot though I believe were WotC to print this it would be rare because of (a) it's inherent usefulness in limited and (b) it's double-sided effect.

[dandan]

So can I start this clock on this?

(Personally I'd put this at uncommon as I would hate to open it as my rare. However, Wizards don't seem to mind rares that suck in Constructed)

[Matt]

This is pretty bad. :/

[Ephraim]

I think the wording needs to be "Put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~." rather than "This gets a +1/+1 counter."

Matt, before you judge too harshly, consider this as one of those rares that exists to make Limited games interesting. If it never sees constructed play, nobody would cry for it, but I think it's certainly an early draft pick -- or do you disagree with that?

[Jebus]

Personally, this reminds me a lot of [card]Entrails Feaster[/card].

[dandan]

Entrails Feater sucks because it sucks early and it costs B. This card could be cast on turn 3 usually and could be a perfectly respectable 2/4 with a Planar Void for creatures built in. It is a reasonable mid-game creature that hoses SotF (indirectly), Dragon and all those nasty nasty reanimator decks that haunt losers brackets everywhere.

I disagree that the card is bad, its P/T are fair (i.e. nothing to get excited about) and it is full of flavour (albeit the flavour of rotting flesh). Is this too weak? I don't think so. I AM pretty sure it isn't too strong but it would be a solid pick in Draft.

[Jebus]

It's not too weak, but shouldn't you make the second abiltiy a replacement effect?  The way it is now, you can respond to the trigger by removing the card and pumping the creature.

[Matt]

Do your games usually put multiple creatures in the graveyard by turn three? Mine don't. Many limited games' first two turns are "land, go." This is not an early creature by any means.

I retract my statement about it being no good, but it still has no early-game use. This has to be a 2/4 to even begin to make the cut - 1/3 for 1BB with an ability which probably won't affect the majority of games is terrible. I honestly see this as a CONSTRUCTED card, something to put in sideboards, a la Spellbane Centaur.

[dandan]

I like cards that are difficult to judge. IMHO this is generally a weak card but it could be good in the mid-game in Limited or as a SB constructed card that might also turn out fat as a bonus.

Is it too weak to see print? I don't think so.

[Jacob Orlove]

It's not too weak, but shouldn't you make the second abiltiy a replacement effect?  The way it is now, you can respond to the trigger by removing the card and pumping the creature.

Jebus makes a good point. The ability should be:

If a creature card would be put into any graveyard, remove it from the game instead.

Edit: derf.

[Jebus]

It's not too weak, but shouldn't you make the second abiltiy a replacement effect?  The way it is now, you can respond to the trigger by removing the card and pumping the creature.

Jebus makes a good point. The ability should be:

Whenever a creature card would be put into any graveyard, remove it from the game instead.

Replace "whenever" with "if".

[dandan]

Changes made. The card is now even weaker than it was before!! (it actually works as I intended it now). Can I restart the clock?

[Matt]

Closed and added.[/color]