Need help with my 4cC deck

[dracosux]

I posted before on 7/31 but I just wrote out the decklist, sorry about that.

I just finished 2nd in a 40 player Bazzar tourny with this deck so it's not really too bad.

Most decks around here (detroit) are (in order of high % to run into): r/u fish, 4cC, trinistax, dragon, draw7, GAT, sui. black (yeah... its not rogue here), food chain & rogue. (thats correct no1 plays slavery!)

DECKLIST:

4x brainstorm
4x mana drain
4x force of will
2x cunning wish (thinking about one more)
1x walk
1x ancestral
1x mystical
1x F O F
1x morphling
2x fire / ice
1x gorilla shaman
1x mind twist
1x D T
1x y.will
1x skeletal scrying (thinking about adding one more)
2x exalted
2x swords
1x decree
1x balance
1x lotus
1x jet
1x ruby
1x sapphire
1x pearl
1x sol ring
4x tundra
3x underground
2x volcanic
1x plains
1x island
4x wasteland
1x library
1x strip
1x city
2x delta
2x strand

SB:
2x engneered plauge (food chain & mirror)
2x sharpshooter or 2x Suq'Ata Firewalker (wrecks fish)
2x stifle (dragon)
2x R E B (lots of stuff)
1x rack and ruin (trinistax isn't very common and no1 plays slavery)
1x coffin purge
1x skeletal scrying
1x swords
1x B E B
1x gush
1x disenchant

Reason I put morphling in the main deck is there's lots of 4cC in this area and he puts a beating on those angels. I know other decks play more Skeletal Scryings and I was thinking of adding one more in place of mind twist; and put Mind Twist in the board. It really doesn't help out to often. Perhaps adding another Cunning Wish because I have so may targets in the board, but 2 really work out well.

Any advice on the deck and (more importantly) the SB would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Jacob Orlove]

Moved to newbie.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Engineered plague and goblin sharpshooter are kind of slow and janky in the sb.  Fire/ice would be much better for anything you would use sharpshooter for, and additional removal could replace the plague (maybe FTK).

Morphling is quite slow and shouln't make the cut; you already have a better win condition in angel.

The scrying count should be upped to 3; they are the deck's main draw engine.

2 fire/ice is overkill.  Don't md more than 1.

2 COB should be included instead of just 1.  (maybe cut 1 tundra for it, citie's rainbowness (yes, a very technical term), is very good and the drawback is minimal)

What is the D.T.?

Another think you might consider is 1md crucible as many 4cc buils have been including now.  It is a house against everything but combo.  (good vs aggro, workshop decks, or other control)

If you are going to have the basic plains all 4 fetches should be flooded strands.\

When posting a list next time, organise it into sub-categories with numbers pls, ex:

8 counters:

7 draw:

3 removal:

2 win condition:

3 restricted brokeness:

28 mana sources:

etc,

[xrizzo]

Do not cut mind twist!

DT = Demonic Tutor

Vampiric should be in the side.

Morphling is a bit weak here -- consider another decree.

Engineered plague is weak.  

Generally, your deck is a suboptimal version of 4c Control.  Focus on how you want to win the mirror and the fish matchup, engineered plague will not push you over the edge in the mirror.  Crucuble is interesting, as well as a single misdirection in the side.  

Basically, if your version is better for your metagame, I feel it needs a bit more defense and justification than you have given thus far.

[Addolorisi]

Gandalf: The build from SCG's Power tournament was sporting 2 MD Fire/Ice, IIRC.

Also, while City is generally good, it has the added benefit of not getting blown up by Sundering Titan. I'd run 2 and possibly consider a third, depending on meta.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Gandalf: The build from SCG's Power tournament was sporting 2 MD Fire/Ice, IIRC.

The build from the SCG tournemnet was also running 3 wasteland!!! (I think we can all agree that that was rather weird)

That was a meta decsion on part of the fire/ices.  With 3 fish in the t8 I think it payed off.

Also, while City is generally good, it has the added benefit of not getting blown up by Sundering Titan. I'd run 2 and possibly consider a third, depending on meta.

I totally agree.

[brturn]

Dracosux,

Congratulations on 2nd place, that's an impressive accomplishment in a diverse metagame!

My suggestions are the following:

- Go down to 3x win conditions to free up a slot.  These can be any combination of [Morphling, Exalted, Decree].  I find Exalted to be the most flexible, but if morphling/decree are working for you, then by all means keep them.

- Go down to 3x removal spells to free up a slot.  Any combination of [Fire/Ice, StoP].

- Bring in two cards, in some combination of [Skeletal Scrying, Crucible, Cunning Wish].

- I totally agree with Gandalf_The_White_1, if you play basic plains you must use all 4 Flooded Strand, not Polluted Delta.

- Your mana is a tad higher than the norm (22 land vs 20), is this working out for you?  I would suggest this configuration:

4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
4x Tundra
3x Underground
2x City of Brass
1x Volcanic
1x Island
1x Strip
1x Library of Alexandria

This gets you to 21 land, freeing up a slot for whichever card you did not bring in from the previous step.

- Take a look at my sideboard choices below.  It may give you some ideas.

--------------------------------------------
I'm running a non-standard setup also, the major differences from Zherbus' build being:

3x Exalted Angel (no Decree)
2x Fire/Ice (replace 1 StoP)
1x Crucible (replace 1 mox monkey; this card is excellent!)

3x Wasteland (instead of 4x, not as many nonbasics around here)
4x Tundra (instead of 3x, replace 1 wasteland)
4x Underground Sea (instead of 3x, replace LoA)
no LoA (testing this, there are not many control mirrors around here)

I've been happy with my board also:
3x REB
2x FTK
2x Rack & Ruin
1x BEB
1x Stifle
1x Gush (it's a house!)
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Coffin Purge
1x Disenchant
1x Swords to Plowshares

I don't take credit for any of these card choices, they are gleaned off the forums here.  But this build has been working well for me.

--Bryan

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I would never cut library simply because of it's game breaking potential, nor would I cut any of the 4 wastelands.  These are certainly rather extream meta considerations, IMO.

Morphling isn't as good as angel.

I think that the origianl mana base used was OK.  I would certainly not drop down to 1 volcanic island.

[brturn]

Gandalf_The_White_1,

[Not to hijack this thread, but it seems somewhat relevent]

I chose to run without Library of Alexandria simply because all the decks I play against are fast; either combo, necro, sui, stompy, etc..  LoA doesn't have the time to 'come online' when you're forcing spells on turn 1-2 then trying to lay land/moxen to build a mana base.  LoA sits useless as a colorless mana source all game long.

This is highly metagame dependant.. if there was even one other control player, then I would put LoA back in.  But there were none at the last tournament and I decided to take it out for a (arguably more useful) Underground Sea.  It worked very well.

Wastelands are another source of disagreement, I'm not as enchanted with them in my metagame, since the players around here tend to be un-powered.  There are more basic lands in one deck here than all the nonbasics in the entire tournament.

Given the metagame Dracosux proposed (U/r fish, 4CC, trinistax, dragon, etc..) I suggested a manabase which is more suitable for him (including the 4x waste and LoA).  I also kept 1 island in that list because it seemed important in his build.  Whether -1x Island, +1x Volcanic is better may be a good question for him to ponder.

--Bryan