Brainstorming! Lets Perfect Artifact Aggro

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Since the SCG Power Tournament, the community as a whole has learned quite a few things.

1.   Tog isn't as awesome as it used to be. It can't deal with fish and many other matches make it a difficult choice to play.
2.   Workshop slaver is on vacation. Though drain slaver still appears all over the place, workshop slaver hasn't put a blimp on the radar for a while.
3.   4c Control is the king of the mountain. It’s put up more then enough results to prove this.
4.   Fish is quite strong and prevelant in the format.
5. Chains of Meph is quite strong. Really strong. VERY STRONG.

I agree with other members of the community in saying that the format is primed again for the return of fast artifact aggro.

We have many choices to choose from
1.   7/10
2.   BFD
3.   40s/40s
4.   TnT
5.   TheManShow (I’m still calling it this because the skeleton is pretty much the same and I can’t think of a better name.)


I think a VERSION of TMS is a good choice, because it has all the tools to currently take down most of the tier 1 deck in today’s environment.

The combo of CoW and Trinisphere is just AMAZING.


In my opinion I am quite the sub-par deck builder   , so I look to the community not only to comment on the following deck, but through tuning the build to give it the tools necessary to return artifact aggro back to greatness.

There are so many different synergies between this deck, and the combination has the possibility to be quite devastating in todays metagame.

Here is the FIRST ATTEMPT of a re-vamp of TMS (The Man Show)

Lockdown 11
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Chains of Mephistophles

Creatures 16
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
3 Su-Chi
2 Triskellion
1 Razormane Masticore (I have never seen a creature DECIMATE so much aggro ever!)
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn, Silver Golem

B0rk3n and Company 5
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor

Mana 28
7 Solomoxen
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 City of Brass
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine

I believe that this deck doesn’t blow every other deck out of the format besides fish, but it really doesn’t have any really unfavorable matchups that are relevant in todays metagame.

This deck should come naturally to aggro players, TNT players especially.

The deck doesn’t draw a lot of cards, so it’s not very forgiving.  Play your threats and have your gameplan ready and don’t fuck up.  

EDIT: My auto-spellcheck keeps changing Aggro to Agro  :lol:

Comments, Questions, Anything? Drop a Post.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

I too, think a deck like TMS would do well in this metagame. It's not just trinisphere and CoW, it's Trinisphere + FAT that makes this deck so damn awesome. First things first, you HAVE to MD a darksteel colossus. Tinker --->colossus is about the sickest play in type 1. It simply wins games outta no where.

Also, I disagree about tog being not so great. Sure, it's got one or two unfavorable matchups, but let's not forget, the deck abuses card drawing with the most powerful creature in the game of magic.

[Roxas]

I'd personally feel -very- vulnerable without at least some sort of direct card advantage engine.  It's far too easy to destroy, counter, or otherwise get rid of threats when they are few in number.  This is especially true given that the list you posted has no backup for its threats save for Welder.  It's been quite a while since any deck that lived off the topdeck was successful in this format, and I don't see the list you posted being an exception.  Basically, I'd try to at least find room for Thirsts.  

Otherwise, I like the idea.  CoW + Trinisphere is extremely powerful, and I could really see a deck based on it going places.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

I agree that the deck needs some sort of draw engine. But there are VERY FEW draw spells that aren't too mana intensive for this type of deck and that have positive synergy with chains.

Thirst during the upkeep?

Minds Eye?

Impulse  :lol: ?

[Methuselahn]

Both artifact modular and affinity decks should be added to that list.  The mechanics are still new and thus not totally developed.   These Mirrodin artifact decks provide enough draw, threats, recursion and disruption to give control a difficult time.  With even more refining and play, they could become serious contenders.  Brown decks + Cranial Plating are so brutal.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Would Transmute Artifact be good in a deck like this?

If im not mistaken, you sacrafice the su-chi to the transmute first then pay for the difference, so you get a base of 4 + 4 extra mana to search. Am I mistaken?  Then can cure problems with not being able to draw more threats, or get a lock, etc etc

[Matt]

Would Transmute Artifact be good in a deck like this?

If im not mistaken, you sacrafice the su-chi to the transmute first then pay for the difference, so you get a base of 4 + 4 extra mana to search. Am I mistaken?  Then can cure problems with not being able to draw more threats, or get a lock, etc etc

That's an interesting thought - since by the deck's creator's own admission, Goblin Welder isn't so hot in TMS, perhaps they could be replaced with Transmutes. Going down to only two colors might give you the mana stability you need to support the {U} casting cost.

[Vegeta2711]

TnT w/ Trini and Crucible is awesome, the splash for Chains may or may not be needed. Honestly you just have even more threats to go up vs. control with and 3Sphere + Chalice in the board will do fine at crushing combo.

[rozetta]

I agree that Modular and Affinity should be considered. They can be build to be more resistant to things like Null Rod, and as pointed out already by Methuselahn, there are a few pieces of equipment that are very powerful, namely Cranial Plating and Skullclamp. The Arcbound Crusher gro-style deck has a lot of potential, for one. Even Smmenen predicted that modular will find it's niche in the metagame.

[Purple Hat]

I think that any deck that is going to be successful in modern Type One needs to have a card advantage engine.  Survival/Squee is PERFECT for chains.  I'm convinced that if a colored artifact aggro deck emerges it will be a TNT type deck splashing black for Chains and abusing Survival/Squee in exactly the same way that TNT does.

I have to agree with rozetta though.  Crushing Chamber, the Crusher/affinity gro deck that I'm working on over in the open, is a fast artifact aggro deck that deserves some notice.  Crusher and Cranial Plating are simply too strong to ignore.  

Then again I'm not exactly sure why I'm promoting the deck...The mirror sucks SO much. :lol:

Hale

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

It would be greatly appreciated if people placed Updated versions of their crusher/modular/affinity decks up here, so we can compare the positives and negatives.

I think this deck can go in many different ways. Adjusting the mana base to support blue can be one possible way to go. We can't go wrong with a deck that can run up to 5 tinkers.

As for the TNT route, i feel the survival engine is another great tool to abuse in a deck like this.  Ive had a list for a new tnt for a while, so i might as well put up the chains tnt list.

Lockdown 7
4 Trinisphere
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
 
Engine 5
4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Oath of Ghouls

Draw and Tutor 2
1 Memory Jar
1 Demonic Tutor

Utility Creatures 6
4 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger

Fatties 14
4 Juggernaut
3 Su-Chi
2 Razormane Masticore
1 Triskellion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant

Mana 28
7 Solomoxen
1 Mana Crypt
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Strip Mine
1 Forest
1 Mountain

[Purple Hat]

It would be greatly appreciated if people placed Updated versions of their crusher/modular/affinity decks up here, so we can compare the positives and negatives.

heres a link to the thread on the open about Crushing Chamber:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18620

The current list is something like this:

//Mana (26)
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Mishra’s Factory
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

7 Solomoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

//Creatures (16)
4 Arcbound Crusher
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter

//Lock (6)
4 Sphere of Resistence
2 Crucible of Worlds

//Engine (7)
3 Genesis Chamber
4 Skullclamp

//Other (5)
4 Cranial Plating
1 Memory Jar


There is a card analysis and a discussion of matchups in the thread linked above but I don't want to hijack the thread (I'm not a dutchie, I lack the mad combo sillz :lol: ) so please post your thoughts over there.

Hale

[Matt]

While I agree that decks need card advantage, I'm not sure Survival is what you're looking for. Crucible is pretty advantageous, and in a sense, so is Trinisphere.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

So whats the general consensus? Chains or Not?

Do we need survival or another draw engine?

Is transmute artifact worth taking a look at?

[Matt]

My intuition tells me that Survival is not a good direction to go in. It's expensive to use, and since there are other card advantage engines which work off your most powerful card (Workshop) whereas Survival does not, I think Crucible is at the head of the class, and the first choice for card advantage in a workshop deck.

[Purple Hat]

I disagree.  There is clearly room for both survival and Crucible/3sphere in the deck.  I think it's certainly possible to cut 2 cards to find room for two Crucibles.   I'm at work so I haven't really gotten to test this idea but my first guess would be 1 Razormane Masticore and the Demonic Tutor.  Possibly other things would be better options but that seems like it would work.

I don't see this as a choice between Crucible and Survival, I see this as a reason to find a way to fit both.

Hale

[TheFram]

@Purple Hat,

I think that the choice is not between Survival and CoW, but CoW and Chains. It does not seem to me that TnT can support a 3rd color *and* wastes + CoW. I think that Crucible is really strong currently, possibly stronger than Chains, so im gonna go with that for the time being.

For reference, here is the TnT + CoW list that I'm trying out at the moment.

TnT

Disruption - 11
4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Engine - 10
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Goblin Welder
1 Anger
1 Squee

Beats - 14
4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
2 Triskellion
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant

Open Slots - 2(forgot to mention these)
2 XXXXX

Mana 23 (+ 4 Strips = 27)
1 Crypt
1 Vault
7 SoLoMoxen
4 Wooded Foothils
4 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Mishra's Workshop

SB (Not too sure of this) - 15
1 Goblin Replica
1 Elf Replica
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chalice of the Void

The one real issue I've had with this list is mana flooding, 27 is likely too much, but im not sure what to cut.

-Avi

[Lockdown]

I've taken a different approach from most here.  Rather than focusing on fat, it's more of focusing on consistently getting Crucible/Waste/3-Sphere.  Here's my list:

//Lockdown(13)
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of the Worlds
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

//Alternate Win (3)
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Darksteel Colossus

//Disruption(6)
4 Duress
2 Chalice of the Void

//Draw/Search/Broken(14)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
2 Tainted Pact

//Mana(24)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Mishra's Workshop
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River

Obviously not optimal yet and there are certain questionable card choices, but I've been getting decent results.  It can either attempt to get out Crucible+Sphere or go for a quick win by tinkering out the Colossus.  Goblin Welder can be troublesome and I was thinking about adding Triskelion, or even Damping Matrix.  This deck may also have problems with combo/super-fast aggro in which case the ideal plan would probably be to tinker for the Angel as fast as possible.  However, I haven't had too many problems with doing this, given the amount of search and draw this deck.  Any thoughts?

EDIT: Thanks Jacob.  My mistake.

[Purple Hat]

This is the list we were messing around with.  I haven't noticed a problem running three colors and the strips.  

// Mana
    4  Wasteland
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Wooded Foothills
    3  Taiga
    2  Bayou
    1  Forest
    1  Mountain
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Crypt
   
// Creatures
    1 Sundering Titan
    1  Duplicant
    1  Triskelion
    4  Juggernaut
    3  Su-Chi
    4  Goblin Welder

//Engine
    4  Survival of the Fittest
    1  Anger
    1  Squee, Goblin Nabob

// Spells
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Oath of Ghouls
    1  Memory Jar
    1  Demonic Tutor

//Disruption
    4  Trinisphere
    3  Chains of Mephistopheles
    2  Crucible of Worlds


I think it would be possible to cut either Oath of Ghouls or Demonic Tutor from our build to add the third Crucible of Worlds.  With Crucibles I think you can manage a 4-5 card splash off 2 Duals and 4 fetches.  With the mox jet and the lotus that makes 8 black sources.  Crucible isn't only good with strips.  It also makes fetches even better then they already were.

Hale

[Matt]

You'll notice that none of the artifacts in this deck have a non-mana activated ability with the exception of Mana Vault.  

Mana Vault has no activated abilities. The untap ability is a triggered ability.

[Purple Hat]

lockdown wrote:

//Alternate Win (3)
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Darksteel Colossus

Perhaps I missed somthing but Alternative to what?  It apears that you've cut all the other win conditions from this deck.  You've listed 60 cards but only two of them (and Tinker of course) do anything but disrupt the opponent or produce mana.  How is this an artifact aggro deck?

Hale

[TheFram]

@ Purple Hat

Have you had trouble running SoTF with that few creatures? It seems like Chains came in and the fat left.

-Avi

[Purple Hat]

@TheFram
Not really.  But as I mentioned I'm considering cutting the demonic tutor and possibly the oath of ghouls for more Fat or a Third Crucible.  I just don't think the Solemns are necessary in this deck right now.  The weld in weld out synergy is cool but the Fetch-Crucible synergy lets you thin your deck much more effectively then the Solemns do and I think the card advantage from the draw is more then made up for by the Chains.

Hale

[Lockdown]

Perhaps I missed somthing but Alternative to what?  It apears that you've cut all the other win conditions from this deck.  You've listed 60 cards but only two of them (and Tinker of course) do anything but disrupt the opponent or produce mana.  How is this an artifact aggro deck?

Hale

I suppose you can't really call my version artifact aggro, but I posted it here as it was quite similar to the original posting of TMS rather than creating my own thread.  And the only reason I called it an alternate win was that, while in the end, you need to play one of those two creatures to win with, one strategy would be to get the lock in place first (effectively winning), the other to just go for the fast Tinker.  However, since this thread is taking a turn towards TNT+Crucible, I guess my list seems out of place.  I was thinking more along the lines of either getting out really big fat like Darksteel Colossus or a lock as early as possible, while pretty much everybody else is now going for throwing down fairly big threats, like Juggernaut, one after another.  I'll probably start a separate thread in the open forum with my list.

[Jacob Orlove]

Moved to Open T1.

[DavidHernandez]

I'm considering Bazaar/Squee as a draw engine in 7/10, along with TFK and Ancestral Recall.  Maybe that could work for you as well. Since you wont mind having some of the deck go to the graveyard anyway, it will give enough time to find a couple of Squee's and allow you to abuse the yard.

With CoW you can bring discarded lands in, and with Welder you can bring discarded creatures in.

Dave

[MarkPharaoh]

I think Crucible is better but Survival doesn't get hit by the x amount of removal spells in this format.

[VGB]

I'm considering Bazaar/Squee as a draw engine in 7/10, along with TFK and Ancestral Recall.

Why not use draw sevens instead of TFK?  I also find Timetwister useful to recur dead Welders.

Jar is an auto-inclusion anyways.

[rvs]

I'm considering Bazaar/Squee as a draw engine in 7/10, along with TFK and Ancestral Recall.

Why not use draw sevens instead of TFK?  I also find Timetwister useful to recur dead Welders.

Jar is an auto-inclusion anyways.

Draw7s are symmetrical, TFK is not. Also, timetwister might recur dead welders, but it also stops your active welders

[VGB]

Draw7s are symmetrical, TFK is not. Also, timetwister might recur dead welders, but it also stops your active welders

Since when are draw sevens symmetrical in Prison(-ish) decks?  Admittedly, TT is less optimal early but as a mid/late game bomb - Bazaar on the table, preferably - it is purely nuts.  In a Bazaar/Workshop deck, an active Welder is the Win, period.

I'd be more concerned about losing Squee, myself - except that a new hand of 7 cards sort of makes that moot.  Playing Wheel and Windfall also more than make up for the potential drawbacks of Timetwister, as they are much less situational, and can even be considered threats.

Note that Timetwister can also be construed as a marginally defensive card against certain decks - especially with current decks trends emphasizing the graveyard.

TFK is solid unary card draw and discard, but when one plays Bazaar, why pay to draw/discard cards unless you get truly broken results?