R/G beatz - has consistency but lacks inspiration

[Kaiser von Hugal]

I know the R/G beatz is a budget deck - I posted hear because I'm using some jewlery.  Not sure if that qualifies or not.  I've been happy with this decks performance.  There are 30 mana sources in the deck but I count some of them as creatures.  What I've found is that having so many man lands in the decks allows me to play through standstill and counters as well as the occassional landstill deck.  It is lacking in the creativity department though.  I have 2-4 slots that I'm willing to swap out.  Mainly I'm looking for a way to deal with combo MD without blatantly hating it.  Meaning the cards should be somewhat useful against other archtypes.  I've looked at rancor and MDing null rod and bloodmoon (this requires massive reconfiguration though).  I like rancor because it doesn't make the deck look like a hate deck, just speeds up its clock.  If I were to drop a playset of man lands from the deck, I'm not sure which set should go - Mishra's or tree tops.  I like mishra's for the mana on turn 2 - the green from tree top helps out occassionally.  With 8 man lands - I dont feel the deck can fuel cursed scroll as well.  As a side benefit this keeps the artifact count to a minimum avoiding some hate.  I know the first reaction will be - It's too slow.  With so many land, I find that I can aggressively use wastes, mox monkey, and naturalize early to the slow the tempo.  Obviously, against a GOOOD hand it isn't enough as well as against a tuned combo deck.  Any suggestions for MDing some answers to combo would be appreciated.  Just don't rape the meat and potatos of the deck.

Here's the list:
4 Taiga (FBB)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mishra's (1 of each)
4 Treetops
4 Wastelands
3 Mountain (Arena)
3 Forest (Beta)
1 Stripmine (FBB)
1 Black Lotus (UL) (the herd makes this useful late game, especially with all the man lands)
1 Mox Ruby (UL)
1 Mox Emerald (UL)
4 Kird Ape (Arabian)
4 River Boa
4 Lavamancer (no scrolls need the extra removal)
4 Mox Monkey (need them early to slow them down)
2 Call of the Herd (wish I could fit 1 more)
4 Lightning Bolts (Beta)
4 Incinerate (exploding microwave)
4 Naturalize (could go to 3, not ALWAYS useful, but when it is, I'm glad I have 4)

SB
4 REB (Beta)
4 Artifact Mutation/Rack and Ruin
4 Tormod's Crypt (Dark)/sometimes 2 Pyrostatic pillar
3 Maze of Ith

[Jacob Orlove]

Don't post the same topic twice. You shouldn't ever hit submit more than once.

Moved to newbie.

[Ric_Flair]

Isn't Chain Lightning just better than Incinerate?  Also what about Rancor?  There really seems no good reason not to use Rancor.  Finally if you have so few artifacts have you given any thought to running the uber powerful Null Rod?

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Chain is easy.  I too like rancor and null rod, not sure how to get them in there though.  I could cut naturalize for 3 rods and 1 rancor - will the rod stop mishra's from working? I could also drop 2 man lands - not sure which ones though - for 2 more rancors.  Are there any better combinations of cards to drop though?

[Ric_Flair]

The general rule I follow for numbers of slots is as follows:

4 ofs: A card I want to see every game that is good in multiples.

3 ofs: A card I want to see every game of which multiple copies makes no difference.

2 ofs: A card I do not want to see every game or cards which I need only one of and the deck runs lots of manipulation/draw (see Intuition in Tog).

1 ofs: A card I do not want to see every game because it is good against a limited number of decks (but is not a sideboard card because those decks are bad matchups; or cards that have a small chance of making a big impact on the game (see Stifle in Fish).

As such I would drop at least 1 Mox Monkey.  The man lands seem excessive.  Maybe 4 but even Fish does not run 8.  That seems like it would make your deck very suscecptible to non-basic hate.  I still don't see how this deck is better than other budget aggro decks like FCG, but if there is a reason to play it, then those are starting points from which tuning can begin.

[LotusHead]

Null Rod only affects a Factory Worker from tapping to give other Factory Workers (or itself) the +1/+1 bonus.

Taking out 1 Mox Monkey and 2 Treetop Villages gives you 3 slots for creativity's sake, say 2-3 Null Rod and/or a lucky Rancor.

That would keep Combo as in check as much as an aggro deck can.

[Sheik al Kaji]

Quirion Sentinel makes for excellent tempo atvantage. It comes down for 1G, and brings something that costs 1cc with it. Nothing short of sheer awesome there. Give it a try.

[Plognark]

Rancor is ridiculous, i'd highly recomend finding room for it.

I'd say cut out the naturalize for 3 null rods, and then drop two of the treetops and one mox monkey for 4 rancor.

You could also find room for a crop rotation, which i've seen abused heavily in a deck like this. When hit by an opposing strip, simply rotate it out for your own strip mine and deny your opponent a second land.

I'd also recommend barbarian ring, altough since you're running grims I suppose that lacks a bit of synergy. Nevermind the ring

Viridian zealot is also a viable choice to replace naturalize in this deck, if you want. It's a 2/1 threat for 2 green (the more threats this type of deck runs the better!), and can swat nasty artifacts or enchantments at will.

Oh, and null rod barely impacts a deck like this....the only thing you'll lose out on is blocking and pumping. If you're going to pump, simply leave extra factories as lands and tap them to pump from there. This deck shouldn't be doing a lot of blocking anyhow.

Another odd choice is scryb sprites. I've seen the flying evasion from those little bastards kill some really powerful decks, especially when rancored.

[Shirow66]

I've been developing this deck forever with a friend of mine, and my current list is basically the list posted but with the changes Plognark suggested. Basically less manlands, 4 Rancor, 3 Gorilla Shaman and 3 Null Rods. I recently switched 2 Lavamancer for 2 Hidden Gibbons and it's worked well so far. I felt I wanted some occasional green one-drops and the Gibbons are awesome most of the time. I use 2 Naturalize main and 3 Mutation in the sb. Try out 3 Choke in the sideboard if you want to totally rape the blue decks. The deck can beat most good decks, especially Hulk and Control Slaver. I'd also try using Ground Seal instead of Tormod's Crypt. The hardest matchups are usually sligh.

[zipykido]

If you've never played against control/combo without hidden gibbons then you don't know what your missing. It's the aggro players' standstill. Add at least three and take out treetop villages as they cost way to much in the long run to use. 2 mana every turn for a 3/3 trampler isn't super. SB material at best.

[mylkhead]

whatever happend to Blood Lust and/or Berserk??  Those were great together.  And Berserk.  How come nobody runs Berserk anymore in R/G?

[dandan]

Berserk is only good is you have an attacking creature (fairly easy), AND you pump it (only Rancor so far, no Giant Growth or Blood Lust as burn is generally superior to pump) AND your opponent is running no removal. Even then you'll often only get 4 more damage (2 power plus Rancor times two) and your creature will die. In the above decklist a Giant Growth would be better and most people would agree that the burn spells are superior to GG.
People don't run Berserk anymore because they have tuned their decks.

[mylkhead]

But Berserk is a good finisher isn't it?  It also seconds as removal on one of their attacking creatures.  An extra 4 damage for G is good isn't it?  Your creature may die but you have plenty where that came from.  And rancor bounces back.  

What about Skullclamp?  I know this sounds janky but a Berserked and Clamped creature is great.  

Pardon my nostalgic longing to use Berserk.  Lol.

[dandan]

Berserk isn't terrible but that 4 damage is practically a best case scenario, it is bad if you have 0 or 1 creature out and are doing steady damage. Whenever considering such a card always try to think of what you will need to take out, do you really want less burn so you can fit in Berserk as a 'finisher'?

Regarding Skullclamp, it is certainly one to consider but I would favour budget using Null Rod over Skullclamp. Remember that you probably won't want to clamp an Ape or Boa so you just have Mox Monkies and Lavamancers to use and you'd often prefer to keep them alive. In addition killing your own creatures is very bad tempo-wise and anything in Type I will murder this deck unless if applies pressure. In short I think that Skullclamp might be a viable choice for some weenie swarms in Type I but this RG build is far from ideal for it.

P.S. Root Maze is a fantastic sideboard card and about the only way this deck could win against Type I combo.

[zipykido]

Clamping an ape wouldn't be such a bad idea actually. You get a 3/2 beatstick that nets you two cards if it dies. However the loss of null rod for skullclamp is just to risky in my mind.

[doomhed]

Have you ever considered Immolation? this legends and 4th ed common is phenominal at taking care of quite a few creatures in this format. short list-

River boa
Basking Rootwalla
wild mongrel
goblin welder
gobling piledriver
goblin warchief
PSYCHATOG
small quirion dryads
Gorilla Shamen

there are probably more, but this is pretty good. they can also boost the power of skyshroud elites, kird apes and rogue elephants for the killing blow. We replaced the chain lightnings on My G/F's Build with no regrets.