Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« on: August 09, 2004, 11:53:07 pm » |
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I was really hoping that they'd print this exact card in the Scourge set. Alas.
Gray Knight
BB
Creature -- Knight
2/2
First strike, protection from green
Endless war and years of battle had worn away the knight's glory, rendering his once bright armor, armaments, and eyes as dull as cold stone.
Current Wording:
Gray Knight
BB
Creature -- Knight
2/2
First strike, protection from green
Endless war and years of battle had worn away the knight's glory, rendering his once bright armor, armaments, and eyes as dull as cold stone.
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 12:01:02 am » |
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I like the idea, I suppose, although Black Knight has fallen out of fashion, for the time being. I don't like the name. Gray seems to be a mix of black and white, rather than something decidedly black. If white got Silver Knight to pair its White Knight, black could get something like Onyx Knight.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2004, 12:04:54 am » |
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Originally, I was thinking of some kind of metallic black stone or something ("Onyx", "Obsidian", etc.) to name him after, but everything I came up with sounded strange.
I ended up with the color gray because I believe that it does not often portray a positive image, but rather something old, dull, or worn.
EDIT: After looking at the newer knights, I changed the text to have a comma separating the abilities instead of a line break.
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Laurie Cheers
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2004, 02:45:20 am » |
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I really like the flavour text. Leaden Knight? Selenic Knight? (i.e. made of tin) Wulfram Knight? On second thoughts, Gray Knight seems pretty good.  |
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
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Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2004, 11:31:15 am » |
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Isn't this too good for a black creature? Black isn't supposed to get great creatures the way white and green do.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2004, 01:16:03 pm » |
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Perhaps, but to be honest, I don't believe that this is as good as cards like Nantuko Shade and Withered Wretch.
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2004, 02:30:15 am » |
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I assume I'm doing the right thing when I say...
...twenty-four hour clock.
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Upinthe
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2004, 05:56:23 pm » |
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I think "Grey Knight" would look better than "Gray Knight", but either one looks fine.
However, first strike is very out of flavor for black nowadays. You might want to consider changing it to a different ability.
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I know this won't happen in a tournament, but if my opponent has Chaos Orb in his hand while I'm controlling his turn from a Mindslaver, who flips the card if I force him to play it and activate it?
"When I saw the announcement of Temple Garden on wizards.com, I knew that I was going to be out of Type 2 for the next two years" - JDizzle
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
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Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2004, 10:30:09 pm » |
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Wizards has stated many, many times that you can bend the rules for the "color pie" to fit a card into a cycle. I think this qualifies for that exemption, even if Wizards probably wouldn't actually make this card (since Black Knight has been out of print for ever).
I would change the end of the flavor text to "as cold and dull as stone".
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2004, 03:00:09 am » |
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It's a shame that they wouldn't make this card, though you're reasoning as to why they wouldn't is logical, sadly.
I'm still hoping they print it immediately after the Kamigawa block, just to balance things out. Perhaps a fruitless endeavor, but I'll hope nonetheless.
I think you're right about the end of the flavor text, as I thought it might've been too wordy before. What if it was just "...as cold as stone", or "...as dull as stone"? Both words seem like a bit much.
Sorry if that is overly technical; I was just wondering.
EDIT: For the record, I like "cold as stone" more than "dull as stone".
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 03:24:22 am » |
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"...dull as stone." better conveys the idea of greyness, I think. If you really want to nail the flavour, that's what I would do. (And, in my opinion, one of the best ways to make a card with questionable colour affiliation really shine is to get the flavour right.)
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Trollstorm
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 03:46:41 am » |
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The problem is, is Pro:green isn't a very powerful ability. Most green creatures worth playing either regenerate, are too big in the ass for this to kill them, trample, or any of these and more. There are only two monoblack creatures in the history of Mtg that get pro:green, and one gets it via Threshold, and the other you have to pitch a card to activate. Not to mention, they both get Pro:white in the process. While I feel the Silver Knight should have his Pewter counterpart, it just doesn't seem worth it -- White Knight can't be Terrored, Blach Knight can't be Swords'd, and Silver Knight can't be shocked... what can't this be? Wanderlusted? The idea simply doesn't fit in the world.
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"And that is the essential lesson and liberating power behind TMD and Vintage. WE OWN THIS FORMAT. No one else. US. WotC won't cooperate? Fuck em." -Ric Flair
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Ephraim
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 03:54:19 am » |
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Yeah, now that Trollstorm brings it up, apart from Black Knight, neither first strike nor protection are particularly themely abilities for black, which probably accounts for Black Knight not having been reprinted for a while.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2004, 04:18:32 am » |
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I'm probably the only person alive who feels that the world of Magic is incomplete without this card.
The card has "knight" in the title and has a casting cost of two, first strike, and protection from a color. I honestly believe that if these characteristics are met, the card could be any color.
If it was ridiculously farfetched or vastly out of flavor, I'd understand, but I really just don't think that this is that bad.
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Trollstorm
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2004, 04:30:44 am » |
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honestly, what would be the use? Eating Ancstral Elders, or holding off a Spiritmonger for any turn in which they couldn't change it's color? blocking a troll ascetic infinitely? Eating insect tokens?
you've got your eastern paladin, what more do you want?
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"And that is the essential lesson and liberating power behind TMD and Vintage. WE OWN THIS FORMAT. No one else. US. WotC won't cooperate? Fuck em." -Ric Flair
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Cyberpunker
Basic User
Posts: 608
I just gotta topdeck better than you ^_^.
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2004, 09:54:57 pm » |
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Hmmm how about making this more powerful by giving it pro-blue? I don't know if Suicide would run it still but IMO it would do decent as an aggro creature in the current meta  . |
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Trollstorm
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2004, 06:54:48 am » |
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yea, because everyone uses boomerangs in T1.
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"And that is the essential lesson and liberating power behind TMD and Vintage. WE OWN THIS FORMAT. No one else. US. WotC won't cooperate? Fuck em." -Ric Flair
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Jebus
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1216
Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2004, 08:31:30 am » |
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Protection from Blue is out of flavor for black.
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
Posts: 2297
King of the Jews!
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2004, 03:28:22 pm » |
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I wouldn't mind this card but I don't like the name. Gray usually means a mix of black and white. I like the Onyx name better.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Laurie Cheers
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2004, 09:45:09 am » |
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Hmm... Does anyone really know what Onyx looks like? I don't. Jet Knight sounds too futuristic. Obsidian Knight? Or just Iron Knight? Cast iron can be extremely black. |
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Bram
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 3203
I've got mushroom clouds in my hands
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2004, 09:59:38 am » |
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I think "Grey Knight" would look better than "Gray Knight", but either one looks fine. IF we choose to go with the gray/grey thing it would DEFINITELY have to be 'grAy knight' since we also have 'Gray Ogre'. You're just saying that because it looks to much like Gay Knight that way :-P Hmm... Does anyone really know what Onyx looks like? I don't.  How 'bout Jedi Knight? ;-) Seriously: since this does something with green it should reflect that in it's name. Emerald Knight, Jade Knight, whatever. Trollstorm: I agree. This ability feels weird. Pro:G is useless... |
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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Shadow-Walker
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2004, 11:53:23 am » |
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No it shouldnt have green stuff in the name, it is counter to it. How about Charcoal Knight? Im pretty sure coal is harmful to natural organisms (and made of dead ones).
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
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Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2004, 01:43:07 pm » |
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Here's a few more adjectives: dusky, sable, ashen, leaden, sere, slate, stone
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Shadow-Walker
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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2004, 01:45:41 pm » |
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"Ashen". Nice.
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
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Posts: 2297
King of the Jews!
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2004, 02:33:22 pm » |
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Knight of Dusk already exists but I like Sable Knight.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Ephraim
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« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2004, 03:38:52 pm » |
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I like Iron Knight. It's the right colour, and has the correct number of syllables and the correct material properties (ie: a metal) to mimic Silver Knight.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Robert the Swordsman
Basic User
Posts: 216
See you later, sunshine.
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« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2004, 10:07:59 pm » |
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I like Iron Knight. It's the right colour, and has the correct number of syllables and the correct material properties (ie: a metal) to mimic Silver Knight. "Iron" is actually pretty cool. It's what I'd pick if it were anything but "Gray". The only thing is it makes me think of something that is mechanized or robotic; something artificial. Does anyone else get that feeling? If not, "Iron" is the neatest option so far. Still, I think my explanation of the appropriateness of "Gray" is sufficient, but I can understand if others don't quite view it the way I do. |
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I'm sorry, Miss Nanako. Looks like I won't be able to take you to the beach like I promised.
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2004, 11:20:29 pm » |
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"Iron" does convey that mechanical quality for me. I don't really like it for that reason.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Laurie Cheers
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2004, 07:33:29 am » |
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Slate Knight or Sere Knight would sound fairly cool. I'm less keen on sable, since it means browny yellow. Gunmetal Knight? (the perfect colour, just anachronistic. Damn.) Coaly Knight? (all is calm, all is bright...) Stained Knight? Starless Knight?  Or perhaps we could just go for more anti-green names: Withering Knight Polluted Knight |
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Bram
Adepts
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Posts: 3203
I've got mushroom clouds in my hands
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2004, 07:55:20 am » |
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Coaly Knight? (all is calm, all is bright...) Thanks. I laughed so hard at this I dropped my coffee on my lap  This is probably the longest name-related discussion ever in this forum. I'd still like to convey the green aspect. How about something that's black AND green? Bayou Knight? Llanowar Wastes Knight? Sacrificed Geothermal Crevice Knight? Bayou Knight sounds kinda cool, dunnit? And we could have a cool flavor text like 'Bayou knights are cold and lonely.' If we don't use it, I'm definitely making a Bayou Knight card with that flavor. |
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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