|
Zelyon
|
 |
« on: August 16, 2004, 02:41:52 pm » |
|
This thread serves to determine if a black hate deck can do well in this meta and to optimize it if it can.
I want to start by saying that the only testing this deck has had was online. I simply don't have far too many of the cards to be able to run it in person. So the deck could well suck and the online victories just flukes as I have found testing online can sometimes be. If the mods don't believe that this deck can be competitive, i have no problem with them moving it to the newbie forum.
Now for the cards...
Mana
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring and/or Black Lotus (I don't like the Lotus since I don't want the Crucible welded out)
Swamps
Fetchlands (to abuse Welder and or to splash a color)
4 Dark Ritual
Mana Denial
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Null Rod
4 Sinkhole
Tog/4c Control Hate
3-4 diabolic edict
3-4 chains of Mephistopheles
Other Disruption
4 Duress
2-3 Withered Wretch
Fish/Welder/Goblin Hate
4 Plaguespitter
3 Cabal Torturer or Plague Witch or Funeral Charm
Broken
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgie’s Will
Other cards that I considered...
Hymn to tourach
Hypnotic Sceptar
Phyrexian Negator
Funeral Charm – instant discard
Cabal Ritual
Mind twist
Coffin purge
Mishra's Factory - helps abuse the Crucible some more.
The deck, atleast from what I've seen, does a great job of hating out much of the metagame. It packs numerous bombs against every archeatype. The only archeatypes that I forsee giving it a very hard time are...
Landstill
Dragon
Madness
Food chains goblins
Unfortunately, I haven't yet faced any of these decks except for Food Chains Goblins. And this deck seems to have a fair shot at beating FCG thanks to the goblin hate and the mana denial. As for the others, Dragon is hurt by Chains and the mana denial and is very easy for Black to hate out post sideboard (Planar Void, Coffin Purge etc.) and none of the others seem to be too played much at all in type 1 right now.
Tell me what you think. I honestly believe that simply because of the mana denial and the sheer number of bombs this deck packs, it has a great shot at evolving into something competitive given enough tweaking. But only testing and intelligent discussion/modification can prove me right.
If you can find the room, any splash can help green for cards like naturalize and pernicious deed and possibly rootmaze, blue for brokeness, stifles etc, red for more artifact hate, and white for stuff like swords, vindicate and seal of cleansing.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Vegeta2711
Bouken Desho Desho?
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1734
Nyah!
|
|
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 02:58:13 pm » |
|
You seem to of forgot, y'know, the winning part of this deck. There are really 0 scary threats in the entire deck, actually winning with purely 7-8 2/2 critters might be a real issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
Posts: 8074
When am I?
|
|
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 03:05:25 pm » |
|
Also, how do you not die to workshops?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
|
|
|
|
Zelyon
|
|
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 03:15:57 pm » |
|
In the games I've played online, the 2/2s do a decent job of winning the game once the mana denial hits home. But I do agree that there aren't many beats. This is why I'm considering using Mishra's Factories as well.
Workshop decks have a hard time with the mana denial. And welders never survive for long if at all. Duress helps a bit. The worst card for this deck seems to be Smokestack and between the duress and workshop decks cutting back on them, it's not quite as big an issue. Tangle Wire can be a pain but the Welder hate and manadenial help ensure that there isn't much the Workshop player can do with those two extra turns.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Detroit
|
|
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2004, 08:48:33 pm » |
|
I would recommend adding in the factories for additional beats as well as the strong synergy with Crucibles.
To deal with FCG, sideboarding Engineered Plagues are very effective in combination with the MD edicts and early mana denial.
As you said, balck can hate out dragon pretty well post board with a combination of planar void and coffin purges, as well as tormod's crypt. Tormod's crypt can also be useful against decks like Tog and Madness, albiet situationally so, by dealing with problems faced by these decks having large graveyards (lethal tog, circular logic's conditions, as well as wonder).
Also, you considered Mind Twist, but decided agaisnt running it. What was your reasoning for this? Did you prefer other disruption? Fear Misdirection or simply find it suboptimal?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
You can run from your pain," explained Gerrard to Crovax, "but take it from experience: you will tire before it does."
|
|
|
|
TheIneffable
|
|
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 02:52:33 am » |
|
Planar Void forces Dragon to go off with Necromancy, and it negates Squee and Intuition to some extent. It's the same as Mishra's Ankh. You are already running Wretches, strip effects, Diabolic Edict, Chains, and Duress main, I really don't see how you have that big of a problem with Dragon. I haven't played this deck but that just seems to be a good matchup.
I don't think this deck needs bigger men, if it doesn't have a lock on you, it probably isn't winning. If you have the lock, you don't really need much more than a squire to win. Maybe you could add Cabal Therapy as more disruption.
Basically this deck has a problem with non-creature non-land permanents.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Playing Brian Woo is just something to be avoided at all costs... His every mannerism is quite justifiably reason for homicide. |
|
|
|
