[Budget] Landstill

[nartman99]

I'm new to the TMD forums but not too new to the Magic game. I played this deck last week to a 2nd place finish at my local card shop but I tried it again yesterday and made 6th  
I'd like some suggestions on making the deck better than it is in it's current state.

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire / Ice
4 Nevinyrral’s Disk
1 Lotus Petal
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Islands
1 Mountain

SB:

4 Hydroblast
1 Teferi’s Response
1 Stifle
1 Misdirection
1 Capsize
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Urza’s Rage
1 Starstorm
3 Powder Keg

I'm sure everyone here knows the basic game plan of Landstill. Drop a manland and a Standstill and beat them down and counter key spells. I think what makes Landstill good is it's utility spells, but that takes up a lot of space. Lightning Bolt, Fire / Ice, and Disk are the removal spells of choice and the burn can also double as win conditions sort of. Cunning Wish also adds some utility though the sideboard was just thrown together before the tournament. Yesterday I dropped Urza's Rage and the Hydroblasts for 4 Annul and another Powder Keg. The Annuls were good because there were 2 Stax decks, another Landstill, Parfait, and Aluren. My metagame is sort of random so bear with me.

I think the counterspells are self explanatory. The deck is a little counter light because of the other utility spells but I haven't really had a problem with finding a counterspell at the right time to counter the key spells. In a deck with only 8 counterspells, the counters got to count. Mana Drain + Disk gives the deck the tempo boost that is needed to survive vs. many of the decks out there. I used to have Sol Ring in the deck but that got Disked away more than anything else. The Manlands are my win conditions and the Stifles...are Stifles, they're too good not to include haha.

The Brainstorms in combination of 5 Fetchlands is good. I've been given some chaff for using 5 Fetchlands but I think it's solid. I've also been given some chaff for not using a Fetchland that can find the lone Mountain but the deck has pretty good card draw with Brainstorm and Standstill so I haven't changed the deck because of that. The deck is full of land and Strip mine and Wasteland are too good not to have in a Type 1 deck.

The sideboard is just a random pile of possible game winning and helpful instants depending on the situation and the kegs are in the board to help alleviate the aggro matchup.

I don't have any power because obviously this deck would be better with them but the best cards I have are in the deck.

I was never really too fond of having just one ofs in Landstill.
I also see some versions run Chain of Vapor main and/or Chain Lightning main and I don't think that those cards are necessary.

Any suggestions will be appreciated, thanks!

[Toad]

Crucible of Worlds.

[martyr]

Here's a list I ran at a 5-proxy tournament a while ago that was aboslutely spectacular.

4x Force of Will
4x Mana Leak
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
4x Cunning Wish

3x Powder Keg
4x Fire/Ice
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Teferi's Response
2x Crucible of Worlds
1x Gorilla Shaman

1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Volcanic Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
3x Faerie Conclave
5x Island
2x Shivan Reef
1x Library of Alexandria

SB: 3x Mogg Salvage
SB: 4x Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1x Firestorm
SB: 1x Teferi's Response
SB: 3x Stifle
SB: 3x Maze of Ith

To be fair, this was in a VERY control oriented metagame, and it was powered (I would actually run Lotus in this, if I were to play it again). If I were to play it unpowered, I would take out the two Moxes for 2x Stifles, and turn one of the Stifles in the board into a Powder Keg.

PS: This deck REALLY likes Crucible of Worlds. I think Powder Keg, in addition to being faster than Nevynirral's Disk, makes more sense in the deck when you start playing with Crucible, as it can leave it on the board while knocking out all the moxen and such (This deck has gotten REALLY good at mana denial).

Also, because you're taking out Disk, you no longer need Drain to power it into play. You can play Leak and decrease the chances of not having the  correct mana out to play it early in the game.

I dunno about the Shaman...I just have this thing where I randomly throw a shaman in every control deck I play, and sometimes hes a huge bomb.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I don't think I would ever cut drain.  Just draining into a crucible or keg or even simply man land activations is good.  If the mana base is solid I see no reason why the deck would have trouble casting drain.  Perhaps the reason you ran leak was the good synergy with the moxes as a 1st turn counter possibility?  Either way, -4 leak, +4 drain they are just soooo good

I do like terferri's respose, however.  Is IS conditional but as a 3 for 1 it acts as a secondary draw engine and is just PURE EVIL when it resolves to counter wasteland, fire/ice, stp, etc.  (even mancer in the fish matchup)  2 seems like a good number, although the card probably is slightly meta dependant.

As for keg over disk, they are both about the same speed in that disk has to untap and comes down a bit later and that keg hit earilier but has to build up 2 counters, usually  (this is assuming creatures are the main problem, obviously versus workshop deck disk is better if you get to drain something).  Disk takes care of enchantments also, which may be relevant in the meta mentioned.  The ability to run crucible, however, is such a huge boon that it pushes keg ahead of disk, IMO, but the meta must be taken into account.

I don't like 4 cunning wish and I don't think dropping the number of mana sources is a good dea.  Logically, I would cut 2 wish for 2 stifles and replace the moxen with lands to budgetize this version.

I don't like only running 3 wastes, although dropping down to 3 conclaves might be a good option as they are a necessary evil is landstill but the full 4 are probably not required.

[AggressiveDude]

Don´t play Landstill without Mana Drain!
If I would proxy anything then I would proxy the 4xMana Drains and Ancestral!

[nartman99]

I've never quite thought about maindecking Powder Keg and swapping out Mana Drain. Though in my metagame it is usually a very difficult time to try and deal with the aggro matchups.

Next time I play Landstill I will give it a try, though I agree with Gandalf that Mana Drain is just some good. I also agree that Teferi's Response is too conditional. Drawing two cards is good and all, but Stifle is more versatile and has allowed me to keep myself in so many games. Also, 4 Brainstorms and 4 Standstills along with Library of Alexandria and Fetchlands has proven to be enough draw for me in the deck.

This way if I take out Disk, I could try to squeeze some Crucibles maindeck, though I wonder what I would take out...

Well thanks for the input guys!

[martyr]

I'll defend my card choices, then.

First off, Mana Drain, while a brutal, brutal spell, cannot be counted on in my environment. There are too many Wastelands, too many Tsabo's Webs and such to be reliably cast second turn. Also, part of the deck's strength is it's ability to hold the opponent at bay while it rips apart their mana base; when that's taken care of, you start in with the man-lands.

When you take out Mana Drain, and start aggressively using Wastelands and such, you cannot reliably run Nevinyrral's Disk. This is unfortunate, as it is a really "swingey" spell, but it's something you can easily deal with. Besides, your Crucibles are going to be targets; you don't need your own spells to take out the card that gives your deck its much needed resilience.

Because it becomes less of a sweeper control deck, and more tempo oriented, Powder Keg is your best answer. The big threats you can more reliably deal with with counterspells or Cunning Wish targets, and the things that really fuel the opposing deck: Moxen and other mana artifacts, become the target for Powder Keg. Keg is a great, mana efficient way to deal with at least half of Fish's threats on the board, and it doubles as land destruction.

That number of Cunning Wishes is what gives me a good match-up vs. Tog. You probably don't care about Tog, but incidentally the cards that give you a leg up vs. Tog translate into advantages against 4cControl. Also, it makes up for the lack of Disks main by fetching out artifact removal from the sb to deal with the threats that slip through your counter wall.

Three wastelands is a must, as it allows you to add in the extra few basic lands. These are essential for surviving the DrainSlaver match-up, as well as 7/10 split. You NEED the red mana in play to facilitate answers to Welder and Sundering Titan, so neither is an auto-win. Because of the increased Reef count, two Teferi's responses is not a ridiculous number. Generally, two Wastelands in the early game hardly ever matters, and never have I had a Crucible in play with no way to abuse it.

So, for a budget build, take out the Shaman (what turned into a Lotus) for a Shivan Reef, a Mox Ruby for a Mountain, and a Mox Sapphire for an Island.

I respect that for some of you, Stifles are a necessary card to run, but they aren't for me. At least not main-deck. Also, I'm going to try out Annul at the next tourney I play in, maybe taking out a Bolt, Response, and Mana Leak for three of them. They seem (in theory) very solid.

[nartman99]

Ok so I'm going to take this deck tonight with slight modifications based on Martyrs suggestions.

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire / Ice
4 Powder Keg
1 Lotus Petal
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Islands
1 Mountain

SB:

3 Hydroblast
1 Pyroblast
1 Teferi’s Response
1 Stifle
1 Misdirection
1 Capsize
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Starstorm
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

I don't play enough decks at my local shop to warrant the use of 4 Cunning Wishes. The metagame will be purely aggro I'm sure so that is why Powder Keg is maindecked now.

I want to try and squeeze 2 Crucibles of Worlds maindeck
and maybe put some in the sideboard but I don't know what to take out. That shouldn't be too bad because Disk with Crucible would be bad.

Suggestions on what to take out from the maindeck for CoW or any sideboard changes? Thanks!

[Tainted_Wood]

Toad was right, you simply MUST run crucible.  There is no other deck where crucible is more important in my opinion.  Also many versions run green, allowing for an oath aideboard, but also a main deck fastbond, which is just wonderful in this deck.  

But you gotta figure out a way to squeeze in a pair of crucibles.

[kill doug]

like everyone else said you really should run crucble

Also try running impulse over brain storm

[Falc]

I agree with the others that you need Crucible.  I would probably cut the Cunning Wishes to make room for two Crucible.  Landstill doesn't really need to wish.  It has answers to everything in maindeck (ie. Disk and Stifle).  With the extra space in your board, I would run 3 Rack and Ruin to handle those Stax decks.  Oh, and don't cut the Mana Drains.

- Falc

[nartman99]

Ok. Well the way I figure it, I think I'd rather cut the 2 Stifles from the deck for 2 CoW's because they would serve almost the same purpose as Stifle only it's a permanent instead of an instant.

Hopefully testing will agree with me here.

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Also try running impulse over brain storm

What is this thing with impulse?  Brainstorm is just better in a deck that does not run 5 moxen.  You have a good deal of shuffle effects and brainstorm is the ultimate hand optimiser.

Ok. Well the way I figure it, I think I'd rather cut the 2 Stifles from the deck for 2 CoW's because they would serve almost the same purpose as Stifle only it's a permanent instead of an instant.

I have to disagree.  Although it may at first seem that they serve similar purposes they really don't.  Crucible is a swingy bomb card that landstill can abuse over time in the mid-late game, while stifle is a staple card that robs your opponent of tempo in the early game from a fetch of waste in the first few turns whie protecting your early mana development.

Oh and you can try testing the crucibles in the place of the wishes as falc suggested; see how useful/needed wish is and maybe you can do without it.  (of course more redundancy could be added to the sideboard then)

Edit:  Are you sure about lotus petal?  I'm not really fond of it in control decks.