[Article] The Return Of Ophie, The One-Eyed, Card-Drawing Sn

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=7927

This outlines my testing and my variant builds.  My final report will be up next week.

[pox_reborn]

I thought it was an excellent article and was glad to see you did well with it at gencon.

In a way, I see Back to Basics as everything that stasis wanted to be. Those who used the  stasis deck  hoped to lock down the opponent unexpectantly and the stasis had the tools to work around the stasis lock for a long period of time. (Gush R.I.P)

Back to Basics is much easier to use and seems like the perfect solution to a heavy wasteland environment.

[Since97]

So you cut Chalice of the void in the final deck?


If you did why do u keep refering to it, (aka chalice stops swords and red elemental blasts which keep ophidian safe).

[Smmenen]

The potential for mono blue builds is enormous.  You can design mono blue to beat any deck and I think the Chalic is amazing - but I was more worried about board permission for Gencon.  I kept referring to it to illustrate its advantages.

At Gencon I played 4 Impulses over AK and 2 Counterspells maindeck instead of 1 Counterspell, 1 Prohibit.   I also cut the 4th Control Magic for a 3rd Counterspell in the sideboard.

[Since97]

Also how did u do at GenCon. I read your post and saw that you cut Chalice from the Final Version.

[MaxxMatt]

The potential for mono blue builds is enormous.  You can design mono blue to beat any deck and I think the Chalic is amazing - but I was more worried about board permission for Gencon.  I kept referring to it to illustrate its advantages.

Maybe it is the first time that I TOTALLY agree with you feelings about a deck. You are perfectly right!

At Gencon I played 4 Impulses over AK and 2 Counterspells maindeck instead of 1 Counterspell, 1 Prohibit.   I also cut the 4th Control Magic for a 3rd Counterspell in the sideboard.

I read you article an it is one of your best ones.
I shake a bit  my head ONLY when I see the choice of AKs instead of Impulses and that bad counter for your final build.

Reading now, about your last minute change, is really satisfing. Impulse in MonoU ( and expecially in your redundant build ) are 4-Mini-Demonic-Tutor. I would have not cut them for any one reason.

Have you tested Forbid, during this weeks, in the Proihibit spot?

-------------------

Congrats Stephen!
You did a really good job Top8ing with a deck that anyone considered DEAD! You make me feel right when I supported it in Italy some weeks/months ago. Your results confirmed a bit more my feelings about the raw power of this deck.

I don't know if you are interested in it, but this is a link to our work.
It is in Italian but the at least the lists are easily readable.
I can translate it to you if you are particulary interested in something you see in it.

I was really surprised about the nearly equal results obtained.
In my Combo, Combo-Control oriented metagame, I continued to prefer a "4-Chalices-Maindeck" configuration. It works so well in my testing that I'll play my MonoU ( as a surprise deck instead of my usual K-eeperish one ) for sure at some huge event in the future.



Good Work!

Maxx Matt

[Chill79]

Is there some reason why are you playing ak over storm??Ak cost more and storm works better with fetch-lands...And i would change that prohibit to Memory Lapse but that's my opinion  :lol:

[Mixing Mike]

I feel that Impulse is a nice toy, but it doesn't draw you cards, it just replaces them, as does Brainstorm.  Countering things on a 1-to-1 ratio means you have to have a lot of draw power.  This is where the AK's shine over Brainstorms and Impulses.

[brianb]

Is there some reason why are you playing ak over storm??Ak cost more and storm works better with fetch-lands...

Read the article

It just so happens that Brainstorm is bad in mono-Blue. The only way Brainstorm is good is if, 100% of the time, or a percentage approaching that, you can shuffle afterward. The need to modulate your answers in a specific and effective way means that drawing two cards you don't want and have already seen is simply terrible. The deck is so redundant that simply seeing more cards isn't necessary as it would be in a deck with many different parts. Impulse is much better at that than Brainstorm.

My question would be why you'd play the fetchies without brainstorm (or the need to color-fix of course).  The downside is the 1 life paid and the possibility of occasionally losing tempo to stifle.  The upside is a deck-thinning effect that helps you avoid topdecking islands in the late game.  That effect is very marginal, though.  Let's make the assumption that after drawing 12 cards, you'd rather not draw any more mana.  You popped a fetchie, thinning an island from your deck.  So over the course of the second dozen cards, there's about a one-in-five chance that the useless island would have come up if you hadn't culled it.  So you've netted yourself about a fifth of a card on average.  Beyond the second dozen cards, it seems very likely that a mono-U deck will be in a sufficiently strong game position that drawing the island wouldn't turn the game anyway.  (Is this wrong?  Does mono-U often crap out late game?)  It's a very close trade, which is hard to test, because the effect is so marginal either way.  If it IS worth it, why wouldn't you play all eight island-fetchers?  It seems unlikely that the ideal number is between zero and eight.

One other thing to consider:  what do you think of the interaction between impulse and fetchies?  Is it more often good, because you impulse cards away in the first turn or two that you want later??  Or is it more often bad, because in mid/late game, you're impulsing away stuff that you never want to see again and don't really want shuffled back into the mix.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I think that the main thing to focus on is why play ophidian mono-U over other control decks.

U/Rphid:  The main reason would be the ability to use chalice for 1, but this was cut from the final build anyways.  Blood moon and B2B are pretty much equivivlant, and U/Rphid gets fire/ice for removal as well as possible REB and R&R out of the board (R&R is probably way more important that REB in the current meta, it is superior to flux in that it is not shut down by tangle wire and you are more in control of what it kills).  Vulnerabiliy to non-basic h8 is also not an issue as urphid can run about 6-7 basic islands with fetches to get them.

If you are running intuition/ak engine then the question is how it is superior to B2B hulk.  It has a similar weakness in lack of removal and uses a slower win condition to boot.  The main advanatage here is wasteland.  Chalice is also a big advantage to mono-U but was cut from the final build.

So, I think that the deck has many directions it can take but it is important to make sure that the mono-U build is superior to similar multi-colour control decks.  I prefer the chalice direction as it offers something unique that is available to no other deck in the format.


Edit:  On the fetchland thing steve said he just added them untill he felt it was the right number.  I think the deck thinning capabilities are qite significant and stifle isn't much of an issue unless you are expecting to face ALOT of fish, as no other deck runs it.  As for the impulse interation the deck is so redundant that there isn't usually something specific you want to STAY on the bottom anyways.  (also read the original, pre-errata text on impulse; it tells you to shuffle )

[Klep]

Blood moon and B2B are pretty much equivivlant,

This is very innacurate.  In a format where most spells require only one colored mana, Blood Moon still allows your opponent access to raw fuel for his spells.  B2B, on the other hand, entirely shuts down the opponont's manabase.  The reason UrPhid doesn't use B2B is because getting it to work would require doing very nasty things to the manabase.

[Hi-Val]

Blood Moon stops all wasteland recursion and fetching from the graveyard with Crucible. With most decks cutting back on basics or being like 4CC and not even running basics at all, Blood Moon is far more devastating than letting every land be a lotus petal.

Klep, I'm VERY surprised that you consider B2B a bigger threat than The Bloodening, considering you're big on 4CC. With B2B, all you have to do is Cunning Wish for Disenchant or REB. With Blood Moon, you basically need Mox Sapphire or you lose.

Blood Moon > B2B IMO.

Impulse is basically 4 more counterspells, which is pretty good against most decks. However, we found in testing that it was good to have AK as an intermediate drawer before getting Phids online.

[Moxlotus]

Dude, Suicide Black would totally own this deck
(SARCASM)

Anyways nice job on finding the tech to stop Crucible.  I had thought it was Blood Moon but B2B+basic island never came into my mind.

@Klep-yes but each has its downsides.  Blood Moon's is that they still have mountains for colorless mana.  B2B is that they still get to use colored mana-even if it is only for one turn.

Was Scepter ever tested?  I am assuming it would suck due to Null Rod and artifact hate but if it was mentioned I missed it.  I am curious as to how it might hold in a deck like this.

[Mixing Mike]

Steve:  My biggest question is why should someone play this over say U/r Phid, Keeper, any Slaver variant, and Fish variant?  I see nothing this deck has over any the said decks that really stands out.  If you really wanted to, you could play a Morphling in Keeper.

[Klep]

Klep, I'm VERY surprised that you consider B2B a bigger threat than The Bloodening, considering you're big on 4CC. With B2B, all you have to do is Cunning Wish for Disenchant or REB. With Blood Moon, you basically need Mox Sapphire or you lose.

I hadn't thought about the Crucible angle, which does give Blood Moon a significant boost.  However, I never cut the Island from my 4CC so I've always had that to fetch in the face of Blood Moon.  As I said, Blood Moon still allows you hard fuel, and with just one basic or an appropriate Mox, you can take advantage of that.  B2B, on the other hand, causes most decks to have to wait several turns between spells, and when combined with a Chalice at one, it's basically gg.  I think that B2B is better for control decks because of all the Time Walks it generates moreso than the specific effect on the lands.

[Phele]

Sorry Mike, but there's no way to compare this deck with 4cc or Control Slaver. All of them have total different ways of getting control. Your suggestion of playing Morphling in Keeper instead shows, that you didn't try the deck by yourself, otherwise you would have noticed what its strength is. It doesn't rely on Morphling, it does on Back to Basics and Billions of Counters for what you need a strong drawing machine, what can be Ophidian, AK, Fire/Ice- or Impulse-Scepter or four Fact of Faction ... wait this was way back.

But you gave some crucial point. What makes this deck stronger than URphid? As Hi-Val mentioned: Back to Basics and Blood Moon are both great against many decks in the moment. Both have advantages and disadvantages with none coming out superior. And Fire/Ice is such great maindeck card, with wich the mono blue build cannot keep up. Same goes for the sideboard options already mentioned. All of these can become even better (or worse against Null Rod decks) when you combine them with Isochron Scepter.

URphid has proven its strengths over many years in a slow, control-heavy metagame, the only reason I see to run this over the two-color-build is the a little bit less vulnerable manabase. There already was a good discussion on the deck here:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18578&highlight=urphid

where Thug presented a great decklist.

[Smmenen]

I answered most of the questions raised here in my primer.

First of all, why fetchlands?  

Mono blue historically could not run full racks of moxen and Wastelands.  That is the first thing you need to understand.  Why?  Becuase you'd topdeck too much mana.  That's why Mikephoen ran 1 mox in TOC 1 on Bdominia and why my old SmmenenBlue didn't have full Wasteland complements.

Fetchlands solve that problem.  It really does make a difference in what you topdeck in the mid-late game.  If people say that it doesn't they are wrong.  I have played many, many games both ways and I assure you, it makes a HUGE difference.  Mono blue wins like on turn 25 or so.  It makes a difference.

As for why this over URphid, URphid has Volcs.  If you don't play immediate blood moon, your lands can be Wastelanded.  That's part of the reason to run mono blue - complete immunity to Wasteland.  Furthermore, I would not say that Rack and Ruin is stronger than Energy Flux with Back to Basics.  Back to Basics also has amazing synergies with Propoganda.  I'm playing a prison deck of sorts - the goal is that my opponent can't play spells, not to merely disrupt them.  

I'm going to be honest - mono blue isn't for everyone.  Most people who pick it up will be very dissapointed.

But consider this.

Both people who I convinced to play it on my team at Gencon thought I was joking.  By round five, collectively we had no losses.  Three people played mono blue and one made top 8.  Smith didn't becuase he had to play against a teammate and Joe made some errors that were experienced based.  Both performed very well until the final rounds.  I doubt many decks that only had 3 pilots could boast that sort of performance - especially when they thought I was joking.

[Anders Noer]

I agree that these two articles were very well written. I'm sure they will spawn a series of Top 8 finishes all over the world sporting Ophies.
Good Job with the testing and analysis.

I was wondering if you ever got to test Daze in the 16th-17th counterspell slot? To me it seems that having 2 more "1U, turn one counters" (that sometimes functions as a cheaper FoW) would be worth considering.
I know that this is a tempo card, but even if this deck is slow, it would still like another free counter. is "Returning an Island" too steep a cost for this effect? It seems to have great synergy with B2B.

I think Prohibit is a fine counter - almost as good as Mana Leak. But Daze might be the next best thing for this deck.

[TimeBeing]

I kept playing with a deck like this in my head. I had a feeling mono blue could be strong hate vs the Fish/Curcible meta. Also thought MisD had a spot to come back in. plus COunterspells, are strong if your all blue.

Still can't see not playing Fact or F. But i'll do some testing and see.
Good job.

[Triple_S]

I noted someone mentioned that Sui Black would own this deck.  When you make this type of statement you have to realize that most of the decks prepared for an event of this magnitude are prepared with the top tier decks in mind.  The idea is to get through the first two to three rounds and the random decks you encounter, then play against the decks you really tested against and prepared for.  So, while Smmenen Blue may have a tough time vs Sui, it should be stellar versus the expected meta:  Fish, Workshop, etc.

Of course Thorme pwned with Workshop in the semi's, but thats beside the point.  

[Smmenen]

One of the important elements of the deck is also the psychology of the deck and its age.

One of the first things my online testing told me is that people no longer knew what my cards did.  

One of my first online test games a few weeks ago, someone playing suicide black went;

T1:
Swamp, Cabal Therapy naming fow.
I revealed my hand and there was no fow but there was a misdirection.

Turn two, he played hymn to tourach and i misdirected it to him.

I also had several people forget during online testing that morphling had untargetability and that he could untap.  

The psychology of the deck is EXTREMELY important.  People are afraid to play spells against you becuase they think you always have a counterspell, even if you don't 10% of the time.

[Ghost]

How does this deck do against decks like food chain goblins? It seem like it would have a rough time if they get a fast start. Is my judgement off, or is it that food chain doesn't seem to be very popular at the moment?

[MrZeroPing]

Really enjoyed reading the primer. Glad to see that a Mono U (probably my favorite deck) may have a niche in the current meta.
 
I would like to ask one question. Have you tested/considered playing Engineered Explosives over Powder Keg? Keg does take time to build up and certain threats do demand immediate answers. It seems the draw engine of this deck could get your off color moxen fairly reliably. Is this the case? Have you ever been in a situation where you wouldn't be able to get an Explosives down for at least 2?

I do the see the downside of destroying Propaganda, and more importantly Back to Basics, when set to three. Could this be a reason why you chose keg over explosives?

[Smmenen]

The potential for mono blue builds is enormous.  You can design mono blue to beat any deck and I think the Chalic is amazing - but I was more worried about board permission for Gencon.  I kept referring to it to illustrate its advantages.

Maybe it is the first time that I TOTALLY agree with you feelings about a deck. You are perfectly right!

At Gencon I played 4 Impulses over AK and 2 Counterspells maindeck instead of 1 Counterspell, 1 Prohibit.   I also cut the 4th Control Magic for a 3rd Counterspell in the sideboard.

I read you article an it is one of your best ones.
I shake a bit  my head ONLY when I see the choice of AKs instead of Impulses and that bad counter for your final build.

Reading now, about your last minute change, is really satisfing. Impulse in MonoU ( and expecially in your redundant build ) are 4-Mini-Demonic-Tutor. I would have not cut them for any one reason.

Have you tested Forbid, during this weeks, in the Proihibit spot?

-------------------

Congrats Stephen!
You did a really good job Top8ing with a deck that anyone considered DEAD! You make me feel right when I supported it in Italy some weeks/months ago. Your results confirmed a bit more my feelings about the raw power of this deck.

I don't know if you are interested in it, but this is a link to our work.
It is in Italian but the at least the lists are easily readable.
I can translate it to you if you are particulary interested in something you see in it.

I was really surprised about the nearly equal results obtained.
In my Combo, Combo-Control oriented metagame, I continued to prefer a "4-Chalices-Maindeck" configuration. It works so well in my testing that I'll play my MonoU ( as a surprise deck instead of my usual K-eeperish one ) for sure at some huge event in the future.



Good Work!

Maxx Matt

Thanks!

That list looks very close to mine!  I think mana leak is far superior to Miscalculation though.

[Aeneas]

I'll admit, I haven't any experience with this deck, but it seems to me that miscalculation would be better than counterspell, because it can be cast first turn, and it cycles later on when it becomes useless.  It also seems better than prohibit because it isn't useless against workshop decks.

[Brutha]

Have you tested Condescend as counter 15-16? (in the non Chalice version)
They can be played with a mox turn one and can help you to get the right cards.

[Whatever Works]

I have really liked the deck, and have done a some testing with it sinse the end of Gen Con. Its hard to realize just how good the deck is by looking at the list. A great deal of the decks power comes through the mental edge created by this deck. Watching from the opponents side of the board in 1 of the rounds at gencon the player appeared to play alot less agressive then in previous rounds i saw, and played with a great deal of indecision. The best example i have seen of this against a other deck is a person not casting ancestral because he is afraid of a daze (though there is most likely a very minor chance of the opponent holding it.)

Mono Blue has a very good matchup vs. FCG after round one. Propaganda on turn 2 against goblins is savage, especially if you can resolve 2. The deck shouldnt really care if its taking 1-2 damage a turn. Though its not a steller matchup game 1.

The deck lost in the semi finals to a workshop aggro deck, and alot of people who werent there are now saying it is most likely a bad matchup. I originally thought this to be the case, but after game one I was extremely wrong. Stephen lost because he kept a hand (where he was going first) that looked something like this.

1 Island
1 Mox (off color)
1 Sol Ring
1 Energy Flux
2 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
(top card propoganda (i think)
This hand appeared to have a lot of potential and it shows how this deck CAN be really good with any type of luck.) He plays it safe going island/mox/sol ring, because he didnt want to play energy flux yet, and then lose everything accept an island. This leaves him in a good possition to counter a few things, and then lay down the bomb after getting a second Island. The opponent got extremely lucky, and used a strip mine on smmenen's only island, and watches as he can only laugh at his own terrible luck, and his inability to draw another island till the opponent had a chalice for 2 and for 1. The game ended on a tinker for collossus, but could have been extremely close if the most stable mana base in the entire top 8 didnt break down how it did.

Smmenen actually got upset at me during the end of the 5th round when I asked his record, and after he said 5-0. I think I responded with a phrase like "wow, nice job." To a responce like, "I know your laughing you think mono blue sucks like everyone else, and nobody believed me when i said it was good." To be honest, at first this statement could be considered fairly accurate. I also must say that i was dead wrong, and the deck deserves more credit then it will probably get.

What worries me about this deck is that people will pick it up, and start playing it to get horrible results. Why? Simply because it is like G/red. It does not play like G/red at all, but it is similar in the fact that it is a metagame deck. Smmenen had it tuned perfectly to beat Fish and Stax, and had a fairly decent matchup against 4cc, because simply 4cc doesnt run a high threat density. Propaganda in the sideboard was very versatile, and overall his board performed extremely solid.

 This deck was effective as well, because this is the slowest type 1 metagame in almost two years. Combo is fairly non existent with the acception of Dragon that made a good showing, and the few people who have the balls to play death long (smmenen went 6-1 on Friday with it). Another person almost T8'ed with it. If this deck is here to stay i dont know, but it shows how slow the metagame is. In the grand sceme of things I know smmenen is hoping this deck makes it just so he can play combo, and have the most broken format run the most broken decks.

On another note how many cards would you usually side in vs. Stax etc? I saw that you often could side in more then 5 cards, but I was looking at the decklist, and was very puzzled on what you would sideboard out. Have you considered vedalken shackles? or have you concluded that control magic is just superior? Vedalken Shackles seems to be the right choice vs. FCG/Madness/other low casting cost creatures. Though i am assuming your responce will be that those decks arent top tier so you overlooped them for bigger matchups.

[Smmenen]

Against Stax, ala Kevin Cron or Kenny Oberg Stax, I'd just side in Flux and BEB and take out Kegs, Misd, and two Counterspells and something else.

You are absolutely dead on in your assessment.  My hand was even better than you mentioned though:

I had:
Island,
Mox Emerald
Sol Ring
Energy Flux
Mana Leak
Force of Will
Mana Drain

I was playing first and David played and used Strip Mine.  The game ended for me right there becuase he was too far ahead when, two turns later, I pulled the next Island.  It's all in my report though.

Smmenicakes.

[Whatever Works]

Is your report up yet? or will it be up in the near future??? and considering i got got 11 hours of sleep over the course of 3 days I thought my memory being that close isnt to bad lol. Good job with the deck, and cant wait to read the report. I was going to right a report and then i lost all ambition after losing to parfeit.

Kyle

[Moxlotus]

I noted someone mentioned that Sui Black would own this deck.  When you make this type of statement you have to realize that most of the decks prepared for an event of this magnitude are prepared with the top tier decks in mind.  The idea is to get through the first two to three rounds and the random decks you encounter, then play against the decks you really tested against and prepared for.  So, while Smmenen Blue may have a tough time vs Sui, it should be stellar versus the expected meta:  Fish, Workshop, etc.

Of course Thorme pwned with Workshop in the semi's, but thats beside the point.  

My first post was modified to say what I meant at the time.  Sorry for any confusion it made.