[article] crucible of worlds and you

[jpmeyer]

This isn't the most cutting-edge stuff or anything and I know that right now most people would rather go around flaming people about Mishra's Workshop, but I mostly just wanted to get this out before B/R day on SCG for the people that are less intimately familiar with Type 1.

Another point of discussion with Crucible is whether or not this potential metagame would be a bad thing:

What's out:
Fish/Landstill (can't deal with recurring Wasteland on manlands)
4CC/4 color Tog (can't deal with being cut off on colors/being forced below a mana threshold)
Combo/GAT (can't deal with heavy Workshop fields)

What's in:
Workshop decks (this is what would knock out combo, mostly)
1-2 color aggro and aggro control (stuff like Food Chain Goblins, Madness, etc.)
1-3 color (basically running like 5+ basic lands) control (Control Slaver, mono-blue, possibly 3 color Tog)
Affinity (based entirely on the number of Null Rods floating around)

Also, where I say:

in 4CC and Tangle Wire in Workshop Prison.

it should read "...and Sphere of Resistance in Workshop Prison."  I didn't catch that till after I sent it in.

[KitzuneNinja]

Excellent article as ever JP, I wish I had something constructive to say at this moment, but I'll get back to ya after my first 5 cups of coffey

[Browser]

What does "cosplaying" mean?

[Zherbus]

costume-playing.

[wizmentor]

So, you can

1) Play lots of basic lands to avoid Crucible/Wasteland
2) Play lots of your own Crucibles to out-crucible your opponent
3) Play a deck fast enough to avoid "the Crucible Problem"

Another possibility is to play a deck that doesn't require a lot
of land (like those with Frogmites/Myr Enforcers) and play
Ankh of Mishra.  Especially hurts the ubiquitous fetchlands.

[Nantuko Rice]

What's in:
1-2 color aggro and aggro control (stuff like Food Chain Goblins, Madness, etc.)

Does that include Suicide Black  

EDIT: And responding to what superdad, wizard mentor just said...

Does that mean Ankh-Sligh is back  

EDIT AGAIN (cuz i'm stupid): I forgot draw-go and 10-land stompy.

[jpmeyer]

Didn't they lose to TnT the first time?

[wuaffiliate]

why are some people fixated on bringing back terrible decks?

[savekeeper]

Because they're budget decks and people can't afford anymore? Also, those are often the decks they started playing T1 with and people love playing with decks they used to play.

@ JPMeyer: good article but do you really think people can just make room in decks like Madness of FCG to fit in Crucible? And do you think they should?

[jpmeyer]

It's not too tough, espescially ater reading that one FCG report where all he had to do to add the Crucibles was to say, go down to 2 Gempalm Incinerator or 3 Skirk Prospector.  That sort of thing.

[DavidHernandez]

Another point of discussion with Crucible is whether or not this potential metagame would be a bad thing:

What's out:
Fish/Landstill (can't deal with recurring Wasteland on manlands)
4CC/4 color Tog (can't deal with being cut off on colors/being forced below a mana threshold)
Combo/GAT (can't deal with heavy Workshop fields)

What's in:
Workshop decks (this is what would knock out combo, mostly)
1-2 color aggro and aggro control (stuff like Food Chain Goblins, Madness, etc.)
1-3 color (basically running like 5+ basic lands) control (Control Slaver, mono-blue, possibly 3 color Tog)
Affinity (based entirely on the number of Null Rods floating around)

JP: Do you really think that the decks listed in "What's out" are really out? I don't, but I do see that those decks need to evolve in order to compete now.

I've seen B2B Hulk and 4cc win in an environment full of Crucible_Stax decks. Also, Fish puts up an excellent showing as long as it runs 1 or 2 Crucibles of it's own along with a complement of Annul's. I agree that 4 color Tog and GAT are at a low point right now. I think the flexibility of 4cc is the only thing giving it a chance to compete (for all of you about to say "xyz deck is flexible too!", I mean that the Archetype that includes 4cc, Keeper and The Deck have always been designed to operate in any environment. That was the basis for the Type).

TPS continues to hit the top 8, so the FoW backup along with 'going off' with the combo seem to be a good hedge against Crucible-based Workshop decks.

I know you already recognize this point but I'm saying it for the benefit of those who don't see it: Crucible is making us re-think our deck construction and playstyle.  

For example, B2B is an amazing tool against Workshop decks. What we are seeing is that some of the new cards are forcing players to consider running colors or answers that they would not normally have run. If I run B2B, now I have to run Blue. I also have to run a lot of basic lands.  This almost sends us in the direction of Mono Blue so we can run FoW and Mana Drains.

Even Sligh may have an opportunity to make a new showing in the current meta.

In my opinion, the first coin flip now occurs before the tournament begins: do we play basic lands or non-basic lands. That will determine what arcetype we play with.

To answer your direct question ("whether or not this potential metagame would be a bad thing") I say that an environment that doesn't allow for a 4cc archetype definitely has problems. I think that multi-colored-blue-based-control should always have some decent chance of winning, and when it doesn't, then it means that the environment is distorted.

[jpmeyer]

If they're not out, I at the very leat think it would be foolish to play them.  You're really trying to fight another deck at its own game but without all the tools they have.  Just like how I've found that you can't just go with your single basic land to fetch out plan, 1-2 Crucibles is a losing position against 3-4 Crucible decks (and just like your duals or manlands are a losing proposition against their basics or Workshops if you've both got Wasteland recursion capability,) since while it's true that a Crucible is probably the best match to an opposing Crucible if you're on the receiving end of a Crucible you can't use your Crucible to catch up.  You can only use it to keep yourself from getting dug in even further.

[P_f]

Why don't decks adapt by putting in cards like rack and ruin and oxidize? Seems like a better solution than to give up on 3-4CC decks.

[BreathWeapon]

I disagree that Landstill and Fish are out of contention in a Crucible Metagame. They'll simply have to adapt, with the first step being 4xAnnul MD. The use of Annul in decks with out Acceleration for Mana Leak should sky rocket in value very soon. Annul is effectively what Stifle "should" have been for the metagame. Landstill has all of the requirements you put forward for a successful Manabase, 5 Basic Lands, 4 Fetch Lands and 5 Strip Effects. Fish can easily return to its Mono-U roots with Old Man of the Sea, replacing Grim Lavamancer as one of its key lock components.

Also, I think it's important for people to distinguish the difference between Crucible in Workshop Decks and Crucible in Mana Drain Decksl. Truth be told, Crucibles in Shop Decks scares me much less Crucibles in Control Decks. In Shop Decks, Crucibles are easily handled by blanket Removal and Metagame cards; Oxidize, Naturalize, Artifact Mutation, Disenchant, Dismantling Blow, Serenity, Rack and Ruin, Annul and Energy Flux. In Control decks, your Artifact Removal/Hate is far less cost effective vs the entirety of the deck and often falls victim to Counter Magic. There is definately a distintive difference between how Crucible plays out in both decks, and people seem to be failing to recognize that difference. when they discuss Crucible

Or, I have absolutley no clue what I'm yapping about and players have simply assumed the above sentiments before speaking on behalf of Crucible.