Biased Opinion

[Ephraim]

Biased Opinion

Instant

Draw three cards. Then reveal your hand to an opponent. That player chooses a card from your hand. You discard that card.

***

Card advantage is good, but giving your opponent a glimpse of your hand and allowing him or her to discard your best card is bad. Certainly, this is better than something like Words of Wisdom, which nets your zero card advantage. However, whenever your opponent gets to make decisions that directly affect you, it can do a great deal of harm.

[Ephraim]

Current Wording:

Biased Opinion
{1}{U}
Instant

Draw three cards, then reveal your hand to an opponent. That player chooses a card from your hand. Discard that card.

[Jacob Orlove]

I like this a lot.

[rvs]

It's probably too strong for T2's liking.

[Jacob Orlove]

It's the same as Night's Whisper in terms of cards drawn, but you see one more card and lose the best card you have. It is an instant, but I think the huge drawback makes up for that.

[Shadow-Walker]

I like.  Only good in redundant decks though unless im underestimating its power.

[Ephraim]

Besides which, it's blue. If it is a little bit better a draw spell than Night's Whisper, that's acceptable. I need to work on the wording a little bit. I don't know whether proper templating would have this as four sentences or not.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the proper wording is:

Draw three cards, then reveal your hand to an opponent. That player chooses a card from your hand. Discard that card.

[dandan]

IMHO the CC looks 1 too low or you should discard 2 (making it dig rather than draw). Of course making it cost 3 turns it into Thirst for Knowledge.
It certainly doesn't look like it should cost 1 mana less than Thirst

[brendan]

It's actually really weak. The drawback on it is simply humongous. I think it's fine, because even though drawing 3 cards for 1U is really strong, the drawback is so severe I think it's pretty close to unplayable.

[Ephraim]

I'm happy to see a wide variance of opinions on this card. In this instance, I think it's a very good sign that this is a well balanced design. The quality of this card almost seems directly proportional to one's tendency toward consistent deckbuilding. A highly consistent deck would thrive with a card like this, while a less consistent deck, no matter how broken its cards, would hate this.

Brendan, it's also worth pointing out that this is an instant, which is not altogether common among card-drawers, and which makes this markedly better, by default.

[dandan]

I think you need to compare it to Thirst for Knowledge to understand how good this is.

This cost 1 mana less. This is clearly a huge advantage
Thirst gives you +0-1 cards, this gives you +1 card. Not a big difference as you will usually discard an artifact.
Thirst puts 1-2 cards of your choice in the graveyard, this puts a card of an opponent's choice in the graveyard. Clear advantage to Thirst.
This makes you show your hand. Thirst doesn't.
This means your card quality is probably decreased as an opponent will choose a card for you to discard. Big drawback.

Clearly Thirst is better although not actually that much better in a redundant deck where card quality is fairly uniform and card quantity is important.

However we are not comparing like for like. A 2cc instant card drawer is a very different beast from a 3cc card drawer.  In addition it can be used for things where Thirst can't, Madness, MonoBlue, card drawing in tempo decks and lets not forget that an opponent putting land into your graveyard early to prevent you getting to 3 mana (it will happen) is likely to give you some other search card(s).

This is strong as 1U but would be too weak at 2U. Losing 2 cards would also make it too weak but I still think it is too strong at 1U (+1 card advantage at Instant speed for 1U is not where Wizards are heading).
I don't think UU or Sorcery speed is a good idea but have no idea what else could be used. 1U Sorcery, can be played as an Instant for 2U?

[Jacob Orlove]

I don't think you understand how huge that drawback is, Dandan. This really is fair.

[Matt]

I have to come down on the side of dandan. How is this not really, really strong? That drawback doesn't look like much of one at all, much less enough to render the card "unplayable".

[Ephraim]

Would those with objections feel better if I were to change the mana cost to {U} or {U}? Either would be appropriate for this, I believe.

[Matt]

It would be much less good at .

{U} is fair but I would like and Sorcery speed the best. Splashability makes me smile.

[brendan]

With thirst, you draw 3 (good), then discard your mindslaver/pentavus/etc (good).

With this, you draw 3 (good), then discard your welder (bad bad).

Duressing yourself before you even get to use the drawn cards is so incredibly bad. In fact, it's even worse than duress, since they can hit lands where appropriate. It reveals your hand.. Blah.

I think the drawback is much worse than most of you are giving it credit for.

[dandan]

I understand how the disadvantage that a card has can sometimes be reduced, nullified or even changed into an advantage in the right deck.

Do you?

Drawing 3 cards and discarding 1 for 1U at Instant speed is not something Wizards would do even if the disadvantage were huge (which it is in the wrong deck or in the hands of a bad player)

1U Sorcery - Strong but not wrong

BU or RU Instant if you really really want to keep it as an Instant

[Jacob Orlove]

I understand how the disadvantage that a card has can sometimes be reduced, nullified or even changed into an advantage in the right deck.

But for that to happen, you need some amount of control over the disadvantage. Here, your opponent has complete control and knows all the relevant game information possible.

[brendan]

It's stupidly difficult to negate that drawback. You'd need to be left with nothing but guerilla tactics/welderable stuff/madness/relevant graveyard things in your hand. When is that going to happen?

The reality of it is, you're going to be discarding the welder and be left with the mindslaver in hand. You'll discard the LED and be left with the roar of the wurm in hand. You'll discard the animate and be left with WGD in hand. You'll discard Yawgmoth's Will. etc.

The deck it's best in would be a very redundant (probably aggro) deck, and even then you're going to lose your best threat, and be left with a land and probably another one of these pieces of junk in your hand.

[Ephraim]

Well, Matt & Dandan, at this point, this card comes down to an opinion call. You guys think its overpowered, while Orlove and I think it's strong, but just fine. I've waffled back and forth on the strength of the drawback, but when it comes down to it, it's a free Coercion for you opponent. I think a side-by-side comparision with Night's Whisper is worthwhile:

Casting Cost
This:
Night's Whisper:
Advantage: Neither

Effect
This: Net card advantage +1
Night's Whisper: Net card advantage +1
Advantage: Neither

Speed
This: Instant
Night's Whisper: Sorcery
Advantage: This

Drawback
This: Discard best card
Night's Whisper: 2 life
Advantage: Night's Whisper

The question then is this: Is the difference in the degree of the drawbacks equal to the degree of advantage in the playing speeds. I don't think for a second that being playable at instant speed merits a stricter drawback than this has. If your best card is even so good as Misery Charm, this has a worse drawback than Night's Whisper.

[Matt]

The strength of this card is directly tied to the strength of the cards you draw. Who cares if I lose my Will if I just drew Wasteland and Time Walk? It's still a good deal to draw two cards for two mana, at instant speed.

You're looking at the drawback the wrong way. You're not really losing a card, because you never 'had' that card to begin with - the drawback is a lot more like Extract than Coercion.

[brendan]

They don't have to take one of the cards you just drew as they could very well take the Will or Exalted Angel or FoW you've been holding on to.

Night's Whisper delivers higher quality of cards since it provides 2 completely random cards. This card doesn't even deliver the worst 2 of 3 cards you draw, since they can take cards you already in hand. Plus it reveals your hand to the opponant.

For example:

Playing against mono U. You cast night's whisper and draw 2 wastelands. Your position hasn't really improved a whole lot, but neither has it gotten worse. You have at least gained 2 colourless mana sources.

Playing against mono U. You cast this card and draw 3 wastelands, losing the fow/will/exalted/whatever you were holding on to. You're now in a worse position than when you started. Now you might argue that you would be stupid to cast this when you're holding yawgmoth's will in your hand, but how bad is a card when you can't cast it for fear of weakening your own position? And don't even bring up balance since I'm sure you realise how weak that argument is.

The reality of it is that this card in most circumstances is going to draw you the weakest of the 3 cards on top of your library. It's like an anti brainstorm, or an anti impulse. Impulse digs through the chaff to bring you the card you need. This card digs through the cards you need to bring you the chaff.

[Pizzatog]

The fact is: card advantage is card advantage. The drawback is especially bad to a blue deck actually due to the counters, but I don't like this card because I believe it's overpowered. For basically all the reasons mentioned above. Id play 4 copies of this in my slaver deck. One drawback of night's whisper you did not mention is that it is black, and the decks most likely to benefit from it are blue, so you have to splash for it. I think that blue instant card drawing 1 for 2 is exactly what blue wants and isn't getting because it is an overpowered colour already, and so it needs a bigger drawback.

[Ephraim]

The fact is: card advantage is card advantage. The drawback is especially bad to a blue deck actually due to the counters, but I don't like this card because I believe it's overpowered. For basically all the reasons mentioned above. Id play 4 copies of this in my slaver deck. One drawback of night's whisper you did not mention is that it is black, and the decks most likely to benefit from it are blue, so you have to splash for it. I think that blue instant card drawing 1 for 2 is exactly what blue wants and isn't getting because it is an overpowered colour already, and so it needs a bigger drawback.

That attitude isn't really consistent with the colour pie, though. Blue is the colour of good card drawing. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the colour is overpowered, but it doesn't make sense that because blue's already overpowered that we'll give good card drawing to black and bad card drawing to blue. (Note, I'm not saying that this is a bad card. I'm exaggerating the argument you seem to be making, to clarify my point). If a card is too good to appear in the colour that is supposed to be good at that element (in this case, card drawing), it's much too good for any other colour. I can't emphasize that point enough.

You're arguing that this is too powerful because it's blue. I'm arguing that because this is blue, it deserves to be a little bit better than other card drawers. By your argument, one might state that red is too good at direct damage, so let's give green a spell that says "G; instant; Deal 2damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players." It's too good for red, the colour of burn, so we'll give it to another colour.

[Pizzatog]

Basically what Im saying is this:

Blue can't seem to get enough instant speed card drawing. I like the card, don't get me wrong. But, does blue really need this? Its already the most powerful colour in magic, why give it more tools? I like the card, but I wouldn't see WoTC printing this any time soon. It comes to mind that all the instant card drawing lately has been costed fairly highly 3cc and upwards. I'm not saying, give this ability to another colour, I'm saying why give it more tools than it already has? That's like making CoK block another artifact block.

[Ephraim]

1. Because our set will not fall strictly anywhere in the established rotation of Magic blocks. It is one thing to state that a card would be too good in the current Type 2 environment. It is another entirely to state that a card is outright too good for Type 2.

2. Because we want to maintain some sense of independence with our set(s), we can't ignore staple effects, just because they exist elsewhere. How often is there a set in which blue doesn't have some good card drawer? Maybe this one won't make it into TMD I or even TMD II. But come the time of TMD III, if they're looking for a solid instant card-drawer, this could be the one they pick.

3. Because it is the nature of Magic to give every colour more tools than they already have. It is also the nature of Magic that sometimes those tools will be better and sometimes worse than the state of the art. I've contributed both to the TMD sets. If you want an example of a card that is worse than most everything else (although a very cool, flavourful card, nonetheless) see Aeromancy in the master list.

[Pizzatog]

OK, you convinced me, but you raise a point which Im not too sure of. Is the master list supposed to be treated as an independent set? or is it just a plce to put the good cards created here?

[Ephraim]

TMD is creating at least one playtested, organized set from the cards created in this forum. In the meanwhile, cards that have gone through the forum creation process, but which have not been included in the set, reside in the master list. (at the moment, no cards have been removed from the master list, whether they've been accepted into TMD I or not)

[Pizzatog]

Can we see the set? Im really curious... sorry to get so off topic.

[Matt]

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19049