[Deck] TPS

[Xman]

I have been thinking and thinking, working on numerous slightly different builds.  I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me prep for an upcoming tourny.  The reason I am posting now is so I can test, ge tthe cartds, and keep testing.

This tourny will be in America, and as I recently stated in the US vs. Europe Meta thread, TPS is not all that common (that I have seen) here in the states.

Anyway, on with the list.

Mana Base (27)

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
R Tolarian Academy
3 Island
1 Swamp
R SoLoMoxen (all 7)
R Mana Crypt
R Mana Vault
R Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

Draw/Draw 7/tutors (15)
R Memory Jar
R TimeTwister
R Windfall
R Time Spiral
R Tinker
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor
R Vampiric Tutor
4 Brainstorm
R Frantic Search
R Ancestral Recall
1 Cunning Wish

Protect the Combo (8)
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

Utility (3)
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Rebuild

Broken (5)
R Time Walk
R Yawgmoth's Win
R Yawgmoth's Bargain
R Necropotence
R Mind's Desire

Win (2)
2 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Ebony Charm
1 Mis-D
1 Rushing river
1 Brainfreeze
1 Stifle
1 DSC

After testing, This deck list works pretty well, running about even for drawing and playing first, with about an even win record.  In the upcoming tourny, it looks like the biggest problem will be control/Drain slaver, with very few people fully powered, and I was hoping to get a little help with this deck.

It does work decently fast (nowhere near as fast or nice as Long.dec, but what can you do?).  I want to speed it up, as I can usually combo out within the first 4 turns if I mull agrressively.  If I don't, usually within the first 6.  In the last 10 games I tested, I combo'd out within the first 4, most without mulling.  I am open to any suggestions, and I am willing to try almost anything.  No.  I don't want to play Draw 7.  I want to play TPS, and I doubt I could put together a good Deathlong.

Anyway, as usual with combo decks, it either works or does next to nothing, so any input in making it more stable and quicker would be much appreciated.  I have a little money to spare to spend, so I can buy what I need.

Thank you very much.

& Mods, I hope I wrote neough about it, just not a complete primer on a work in progress.

Edit:  I updated the list.  Any other changes?

[Moxlotus]

I think the deck has room for a maximum of 2 win conditions.  If you are going to play Colossus I think you should cut 1 Tendrils.

[Xman]

Thanks.  I am moving the DSC into the board, so what should I put in instead of the DSC.  Also, how should I finish fleshing out the board.  The meta is pretty much a little combo (Draw 7), aggro (FCG), 4cc , 1 hulk, and a couple control Slaver

[sa17dk]

You could add a 4th Duress in place of the Colossus.

I'm also wondering if Chrome Mox would better than Mox Diamond, since you run so little lands.

[bel_riose]

rebuild is much better than hurkyl's recall.
so you can bounch your permanents as well and improve your 10-spell-count.
really worth a try!

[FrenchBob]

Is your card list is correct ?

I saw SoloMoxen (7 cards) plus Mox Diamond just below...

Maybe it's me.

[Xman]

Is your card list is correct ?

I saw SoloMoxen (7 cards) plus Mox Diamond just below...

Maybe it's me.

Yea, its just you

SoLoMoxen

Sol Ring
Black lotus
Mox R/B/U/W/G

[FrenchBob]

Ok sorry.  

I always thought SoloMoxen meant the five "real" Moxen  + Chrome Mox + Mox Diamond.

I guess the "Sol" prefix is there for something...  

[bel_riose]

Sol Ring
Black Lotus
and Moxen
 

[Frankie]

Well Xman your list is UB TPS and the deck is really made to go off fast
but it wants to control and then win not just go all out on winnning turn 1 or 2.
I have done a fair amount of testing against very good TPS players with me using MUD and this deck unlike previous incarnations is able to withstand an onslaught of lock parts especially if it forces the trinisphere:  I can throw pretty much anything at it and it will resist barring decent hand and topdecks.
So in the end what i can tell is that some of the players here play 1 more basic land either 3 ISLAND 1 Swamp or 2-2 ; on a side note some are right now testing red in the deck by removing 1 basic and 1 Sea for a volcanic and a badlands just to play wheel of fortune and have better SB options.

[Willforce]

if in your meta there aren't a lot of stacks this deck is very strong also with 2 maindeck solutions (chain e rebuild), but i think that if you need 3 card you can cut the hurkyll for another rebuild, that is never  a dead card.

I don't know how many wastelands there are in your metagame but this deck is very strong  because you can fetch for  basic land so 2 swamp and 2 island are the right choice.

[Wollblad]

I agree with Frankie that you need more basic lands. That is what makes this deck so strong, it's resilience to disruption. It isn't ment to combo out until perhaps turn three, everything in between is just setup and disrupting your oponent. I would not cut Underground Seas to fit in more basics though, since the big problem for this deck is to get enough blue mana when it goes off. For the moment I have 28 mana sources with three Swamp and two Island, but I'm quite sure one Swamp needs to be something that can give me blue mana, perhaps Chrome Mox. I don't considerMox Diamond to be an option since you really need to drop land every turn the first three turns even if you don't manage to resolve any draw seven. I'm not really a fan of Frantic Search, but perhaps it should take that spot just as way to fix colours. Many refers to it as broken together with Academy, but since the deck has no way beside Demonic and Vampiric to fetch Tolarian, you cannot really expect to have Tolarian in play when you get Frantic Search.

I also agree with bel_riose that Rebuild is better MD than Hurkyl's Recall. First you can cycle Rebuild if you don't need it. Rebuilt can be played in connection to a draw 7 and eliminating all of opponents mana artifacts and generating mana to you, with Recall you need to choose. Rebuild costs one mana more, but since it's preliminary MD because of Stax and Mud, you often need to pay three mana anyhow, so that drawback isn't as severe as it looks like. Personally I run 3 MD Rebuild and no Chain of Vapor and no Recall.

I agree with Moxlotus that you should only run two win conditions MD, but personally I run two Tendrils and no Cunning Wish. It is a posibility that you can get on pretty low life before you can go off. If you only have one Tendrils, there is a big risk that you cannot utilize Necro or Bragian at all. You draw perhaps ten crads but cannot get enough mana or cards to find your lone Tendrils. Another andvantage is that you don't need a wishable sideboard and can then choose cards such as Defense Grid over Misdirection and Tormod's Crypt over Coffin Purge. I know that far from everyone agrees with me on this, so carfully playtest both configurations before you make up your mind.

[Willforce]

chain of vapor is another way to do more spell  after you have taken mana from land u can sacrifice it in a copy of chain take a mox or something and paly it again.

otherwise this card is helpfull against Dargon, and it's ok if you have something bad like pillar to cut from the game.

or if u need to take back your necropotence....

last but not least  chain has a different Mana cost  for the COTV

[theorigamist]

I agree with the last four or so posts.  The second Rebuild is better than a Hurkyl's Recall.  What purpose does the Recal serve that isn't filled by Rebuild?  Are you seriously all that worried about a Chalice at 3?  If the opponent has a double WS draw going first, I can see this as a legitimate concern, but not otherwise.

last but not least chain has a different Mana cost for the COTV

If the opponent knows how to play against you, their first Chalice will be set at 1, so Chain doesn't help.  But it does help against Dragon, and I suppose to get your Necro back.  But then, if you're using the Chain to get Necro back you're either just building up the storm count or you really desperately need cards and have only 1 life left, so you're pretty screwed.

[Xman]

I have been working on this deck, and in the meta it is going to nothing to grand.  Few people will be fully powered, and there will be some scrubby decks (I plan on taking this the a tourny in Gilbert, AZ, which is near Pheonix).

I did update, and yes, you guys are right by running the 2 rebuilds it hits better than the rebuild/Hurky's.  I have just been pretty partial to Hurkyl's.

I did cut the Mox Diamond, and added an extra island.  do you think Chrome Mox would help this deck that much?

I did some testing on MWS last night, and went 8-2 against numerous decks, both scrubby and Tier 1.  It is able to power through most blocks, which is what makes TPS what it is.  However, it did run out of steam in one game, and I did end up at 1 life with Necro in play.  I was able to combo out with a chains on the board, which I just returned by using a Chain of Vapor.

I foudn that usually this deck will go off pretty quickly, running enough disruption.  But then again, I generally play an aggressive combo, and it has bit me in the ass before.

As for Red, I did a little testing running Wheel and 2x Fork with a few Volcanic Islands, but just didn't really like it.  Especially after I remembered that Fork doesn't trigger storm.

Thanks guys.  All the criticism is much appreciated.

Edit:  I don't know how many people are going to run wastelands, but I expect a decent amount of them, and a couple cruicible controls.

[Nehptis]

.... on a side note some are right now testing red in the deck by removing 1 basic and 1 Sea for a volcanic and a badlands just to play wheel of fortune and have better SB options.

I've been playing with Wheel of F instead of Spiral with much more success.  My mana base is simply 1 TA, 4 PD, 2 Swamp / 2 Islands and 4 Gemstone Mines (although unfetchable, they are needed since I play Balance in the board.  It just wins certain matchups).  If you want to go true u/b then 2 US and 1 Volc / 1 Badlands will work, as well.

[WildWillieWonderboy]

The second rebuild and tendrils are superfluous. TPS is all about setting up one turn of complete pwnage, during the course of which you are guaranteed whatever card(s) you need to win, so running multiples of such cards, when they are dead unless it is that turn, is a bad idea. I've been testing the one tendril version and I can honestly say that it is slicker than grease. As far as the setup goes, nothing is better than Lim-Dul's Vault. Just find the combination of draw card plus some helpful cards and win.

[Smmenen]

This tourny will be in America, and as I recently stated in the US vs. Europe Meta thread, TPS is not all that common (that I have seen) here in the states.

You obviously weren't at Gencon.  TPS was heavily played.  At least 5 players on Friday's tournament and more than that on Sat.

[Xman]

This tourny will be in America, and as I recently stated in the US vs. Europe Meta thread, TPS is not all that common (that I have seen) here in the states.

You obviously weren't at Gencon.  TPS was heavily played.  At least 5 players on Friday's tournament and more than that on Sat.

Wish I could have been.  I was in the process of moving.  I would have loved to go play both nights.

how does this look to the TPs decks at Gencon?

[Willforce]

.... on a side note some are right now testing red in the deck by removing 1 basic and 1 Sea for a volcanic and a badlands just to play wheel of fortune and have better SB options.

I've been playing with Wheel of F instead of Spiral with much more success.  My mana base is simply 1 TA, 4 PD, 2 Swamp / 2 Islands and 4 Gemstone Mines (although unfetchable, they are needed since I play Balance in the board.  It just wins certain matchups).  If you want to go true u/b then 2 US and 1 Volc / 1 Badlands will work, as well.

well obviously the deck in a 4c mode run out easier in combo, but the choice of 2color is to have a secure mana base against any deck's mana denial strategy.


@WildWillieWonderboy
the 2 tendrills are not superflous if you don't have a good feeling with the deck, only when you know this deck very well u can cut 1.

the 2 rebuild is here just to have a > % to have it in your hand when you need it.  especially against stacks or stacker .

[WildWillieWonderboy]

@WildWillieWonderboy
the 2 tendrills are not superflous if you don't have a good feeling with the deck, only when you know this deck very well u can cut 1.

the 2 rebuild is here just to have a > % to have it in your hand when you need it.  especially against stacks or stacker .

Why would you play a deck that you can't play well? The extra tendrils hurts the deck so much, and as such establishes an upper bound for the success you can have with the deck, even if you play perfectly, which you should always plan to do. In an artifact-heavy meta, the extra rebuild would rock. Return prison to your hand and shuffle it away just plain beats. In a neutral environment, I would have to say no to extra rebuild, though I must say that it is the best card to have one too many of, for the simple reasons that it turns the mirage tutors into real tutors if need be. (utility)

[Willforce]

for example luca simone aka Trix (the author of the primer on TPS taht  u can found on the restricted forum) plays just 1 tendrills.

he plays combo deck since the first version of trix an he built the first tentrix i've ever seen when also the german do it. (i'm not sure this is so easy to understand...)

a man like him can play just a tendrills, other people that maybe are new to combo deck (like me ) can feel better with 2 .

very often i win playing 2 tendrills.

[Nehptis]

well obviously the deck in a 4c mode run out easier in combo, but the choice of 2color is to have a secure mana base against any deck's mana denial strategy.

I'm stating that the 4C build contains 1 TA, 4 fetches 4 basic lands and 4 GMines.  The UB builds have U Seas instead of the 4 Mines.  So the stability is the same, both builds contain 4 non-basics that are wasteland targetable.  So I don't see your point regarding a more secure mana base.

In case you are challenging the expectation of not drawing the off colored mana, it has never been a problem.  Especially with 4 mines, moxes (ruby/pearl and diamond), petal, and lotus in the mix.

[Willforce]

In case you are challenging the expectation of not drawing the off colored mana, it has never been a problem.  Especially with 4 mines, moxes (ruby/pearl and diamond), petal, and lotus in the mix.

if it really work its a good thing i will try your config but maybe the choice of 2 or 4 cc are only depending on different strategy in different metagames.

[Xman]

I personally prefer the 2 color TPS, and hopefully, it will work well with me.  Thank you again for all of your help, and I will keep updating as I get mroe time to test. What were the TPS decklists from Waterbury tourny? I really want to know, see if mine was anything compared to them.

[Zherbus]

Thread 'fixed' and reopened.