Fracture

[Marco]

I need some help with this one (Jebus?) - I think the current wording works.

Fracture
2R
Instant
Target artifact loses indestructible until end of turn. Destroy that artifact. It can’t be regenerated.

It's not entirely clear from the wording, but this should be able to target artifacts that are not indestructible too.

From the Darksteel FAQ:

"Indestructible" is not a keyword ability. It's just a word with a specific English meaning that's used as part of a permanent's abilities, like "unblockable." When an effect states that "[this permanent] is indestructible," it's stating a quality about that permanent, not giving it an ability. The official rules for indestructible (from the glossary of the Comprehensive Rules) are as follows:

If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can't destroy it. Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based effect (see rule 420.5c). Rules or effects may cause the permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or removed from the game.

[Marco]

Current Wording:

Atomize
R
Instant
Remove target permanent from the game if it's indestructible.

[Jacob Orlove]

What about just "put target artifact into the gravyard"?

[Marco]

Wow. I guess that works. Although more of a precedent has been set for "Remove target artifact from the game".

[Jebus]

Putting it straight into the graveyard or removing it from the game is strictly better than shatter.  I don't think you can cost it like this.

Maybe RR1.

Anyway, your original wording doesn't work, since Indestructible isn't a keyworded ability.  It is a quality created by a static ability.

[Upinthe]

How about:

Fracture 2R

Remove target artifact from the game, then put it into its owner's graveyard.

The only functional difference is it won't trigger Moriok Rigger, etc...

[Jebus]

How about:

Fracture 2R

Remove target artifact from the game, then put it into its owner's graveyard.

The only functional difference is it won't trigger Moriok Rigger, etc...

This is still strictly better than Shatter.  It prevents regeneration.

[Jacob Orlove]

Shatter is 1R, though.

[Jebus]

Shatter is 1R, though.

Good point.  

I will now switch out my bad brain with this good brain I've been saving.

Damn, I've been off today.

[Ephraim]

I don't like this a all. Indestructible is supposed to be a special, powerful status and you're proposing a cheap, one-card way to deal with it. I'd be more comfortable with this card if it just read, "Until the end of turn, target indestructible creature may be destroyed as though it were not indestructible." You still need another spell or ability to deal with indestructible stuff, so this doesn't become a superiour shatter, that anybody expecting to deal with indestructible stuff would pack in its place. It actually requires some thought to determine whether this is really worth space in the deck.

[Shadow-Walker]

I was almost certain fifth dawn would have:
RR
Instant
RFG target atrifact

But alas it did not come.  So I like this.

[Laurie Cheers]

The controller of target artifact sacrifices that artifact.

[Marco]

Thanks, guys. I didn't realize it at first, but instead of using the wording I originally posted, the simplest way to do what I wanted to do is to make the card read, "Remove target artifact from the game". However, this has been done and isn't very original (Splinter, Altar's Light).

What if Fracture could only target artifacts that are indestructible? Would that make it sufficiently narrow?

[Ephraim]

Yes, Marco. That would make the card more tolerable. As long as the card doesn't become a total no-brainer in an environment with indestructible artifacts. Truthfully, what I would really like to see is for this card to keep the mana cost of , be able to remove only indestructible artifacts, and for it to be a sorcery. No, there aren't a whole lot of indestructible cards out there, but that's because they're thematically powerful and unusual. The card that should deal with them should be likewise difficult to use so that it doesn't make "indestructible" seem not very special after all.

[edit]Actually, going back and looking at Altar's Light, I can't really justify the changes I suggested. Being able to target only indestructible artifacts, it could very reasonably be a instant or maybe even a instant and still be comparable to Altar's Light. If it is less powerful than Splinter, that's hardly evidence of weakness.[/edit]

[Laurie Cheers]

Come on, if it can only target indestructible artifacts, it's almost useless. (Intriguing... but useless). It would only playable if you combine it with Slobad.

[Ephraim]

I think it is better that this card be unplayable than the very cool, unique idea of an indestructible artifact be rendered void.

[Jacob Orlove]

What if this killed only indestructible permanents?

Then you'd hit stuff like Konda or the Myojins.

It could still be like a 1R instant, since you only added half a dozen new targets, but it would make the card much more interesting.

The flavor would have to be different, though.

[Marco]

Yes, I like the idea of killing indestructible permanents, but the flavor (card name) would have to change, as well as the color?

[Matt]

I think it's fine to make a really, really narrow card if it's not always dead ([card]Brand[/card]). So cycling works, but what about:

Get Off Your High Horse

Sorcery
If target permanent is indestructible, remove it from the game. Draw a card.

[Marco]

I would really like to keep this red. I've come up with some possible card names:

Condemn, Crucify (sound black)
Final Judgment (sounds white)
Rebuke (sounds blue)
Arcane Strike, Concussion Blast (sound red)

It needs to sound like it can kill artifacts as well as nonartifact creatures.

I was thinking along the lines of "Remove target indestructible permanent from the game", but "If target permanent is indestructible, remove it from the game" could work.

I'm aiming for a 1R sorcery.

Does it need to be a cantrip? I would rather give it cycling 2 than turn it into a cantrip.

[Jacob Orlove]

The "if target X is Y" wording lets you cast it on anything just to draw a card. That's basically cycling, except it still cantrips when you actually cast it, PLUS it kills Horobi, Death's Wail. :D

You need a name that sounds like it only destroys specific kinds of things.

Ooh, here's an idea. Indestructible permanents last forever, but everything else will die eventually. So somehow you bring back all that past (and future!) to one single chaotic moment. The resulting effect simply removes them from the game (although it does not actually destroy them).

Or, some kind of destructive force that uses the resistance of its target to power itself. Like, ordinary people feel a slight sting, but if you're indestructible, it doesn't stop.

[Marco]

Change made.

I changed Matt's suggestion slightly, using the Oracle wording of Pyroblast as a base ("...Counter target spell if it’s blue...") to make it more like something WotC would print.

Like Pyroblast, you can cast it on any permanent, have it have no effect if the permanent is not indestructable, and draw a card.

So everyone thinks its okay for this to cantrip?

I'm still working on a name...

[Matt]

The thing about narrow cards is that since they're so hard to use, when you DO get to use them they should be very powerful. Otherwise you get crap like Brand which was never even a sideboard card when Treachery was all the rage.

[Marco]

24 hour clock?

[leviat]

Sorry to ruin the clock, but I just don't feel that it should be red if it can target any permanent.

Edit: Looking through the recent blocks, this card doesn't really fit any color except artifacts. So now I am imagining these rings that come down and cover the indestructable permanent and whisk it away to some other dimension (ever seen Stargate?). So here's my suggestion...

Rings of Quiacatl
Legendary Artifact
, Sacrifice ~this~: Remove target permanent from the game if it is indestructable. Draw a card.

My reasoning behind making this legendary is two fold. One, such a powerful artifact would have to be, and two, I don't like there being too easy of a way to remove indestructable things because, well, there's a reason they are indestructable.

[Marco]

"Any permanent" (which is indestructible) is currently only artifacts, artifact creatures, artifact lands (all of which red has a history of being able to destroy), and creatures (which red has been able to destroy in the past, but usually through damage or board sweeping).

It was once said that every card in Magic should have a foil (I think it was MaRo who said it). I think indestructible should have a foil as well.

[leviat]

I'm not arguing against a "foil" card nor do I deny that red can "pillage". It's just that red does not (and should not) have the ability to remove something from the game aside from "Incinerating" it to nothingness, which just isn't going to happen to something indestructable.

[Jacob Orlove]

Apocalypse?

Red can do almost anything destructive, as long as it's targeting something "real" (ie no enchantments or spells). This certainly fits that criteria.

I really don't like the name, though, for two different reasons. One is that wizards saves short names like that for cards that may make it to the base set eventually--there's no need to waste such a short, generic name on such a narrow card.

But more importantly, the name doesn't really convey any flavor reason for the card to work the way it does.

[b4r0n]

This card seems very white to me. White usually gets this type of removal (StP, Erase, Second Thoughts, and recently, Reciprocate), as opposed to red. I think changing the color would be all that's needed to fix up this card.

Negate
1W
Sorcery
Remove target permanent from the game if it's indestructible.
Draw a card.

(negate, v. - to make ineffective or invalid; nullify.)

Also, would there be any objections if we made this an instant?

[Marco]

And I thought this one was ready to be added. Some new concerns are:

1. Card colour
2. Card name
3. Spell type (Sorcery vs. Instant)

I think the only real concern is the card name. I agree with Jacob's point about a short, generic name; however, I do think it fits here as it covers organic as well as inorganic matter:

Destruction or injury of anything, especially by violence.

Another idea for a card name that I had was "Atomize", which would fit here if it didn't sound so futuristic?