reviving TnT

[Juggernaut GO]

Hi all, I started playing tnt again about 2 weeks before the waterbury tournament and after some tweaking to the deck I finished 13th there with the following decklist :

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Sol Ring
4 Tropical Island
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Pentavus
4 Juggernaut
4 Trinisphere
2 Mindslaver
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Thrist for Knowledge
4 Goblin Welder
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant
1 Karn Silver Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Squee Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Mana Vault

Sideboard:
3 Fire/Ice
1 Genesis
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Stifle
4 Chalice of the Void


If I could have changed anything after playing that day I would have taken out the 2 mindslaver and 1 pentavus and ran chalice of the void MD.  The only problem I ran into with this deck was sundering titan.  I learned this rather quick after playing against kerz the following weekend in williamstown ma.  Sundering titan + all my lands are non basic = I lose. Remarkably I didn't have 1 titan dropped on me all day at waterbury.

So after some more tweaking of the deck I decided to go back to the roots of TnT in the form of threat after threat.  I come up with the following pile:

mana sources: 25
4 mishra's workshop
8 solomoxcrypt
4 taiga
2 FOREST (go basic)
3 wooded foothills
1 tolarian academy
1 darksteel citadel
1 ancient tomb
1 mana vault

utility/draw: 9
4 survival of the fittest
2 crucible of worlds
2 fire/ice
1 memory jar

combo: 4
1 fastbond
1 zuran orb
2 staff of domination

creatures:23
4 juggernaut
4 goblin welder
4 metalworker
2 arcbound overseer (wtf is this card doing here???)
2 arcbound ravager
1 razormane masticore (want to run 2, it's a monster against welders)
1 karn silver golem
1 sundering titan
1 squee
1 anger
1 duplicant
1 triskelion

side:
1 uktabi orangutan
2 chalice of the void
2 naturalize
4 sphere of resistance (I lost an entirely too close match to tps in top 16 this card would have made the difference)
3 tormod's crypt
2 rack and ruin
1 oxidize

I'll admit the sideboard is rather jenky but it's there for decks that I know I'm weak against.  As for the main deck I would consider cutting the karn to put in a second razormane.  I know most people would say "why bother running any kind of combo in the deck?"  After I run it today and see how it turns out I may take out staff/metalworker, who knows.

I will be running this build at mykeatog's mox tourney in auburn later today, will see how it does.

[Covetous]

I feel that TnT needs around 27-28 mana sources to run well.  Basics are key, so running blue is probably not your best bet.  I'm also not convinced that trying to run a combo is the best idea.  You have to dilute your threat pool to run the combo.  I'd run 4 3spheres and 3 crucibles as disruption, with the full complement of wastes.  Mindslaver is an interesting idea, except that you have no way to search for it or toss it in your 'yard.  Since you have no search (except for creatures), anything combo-ish will be tricky because your deck has no pure draw engine, either.  The game plan is to disrupt the opponent's mana and drop fat.  There is no other plan that will be truly effective with this deck.  So, either the disrupt and fat plan works or the deck isn't the right choice.  If you want to run the metalworker/staff combo, then you would be better off with a different deck that runs blue and possibly black.  Zuran orb/fastbond is cute (and fastbond might actually be good enough for the deck), but the lack or search makes it too random to waste the slots.  The deck is all about the early game--if you stall early (due to drawing staff of domination and fastbond but no real threats) then you will probably not be able to recover except against decks that aren't good.

[Dante]

Ask any experienced TnT player and they will tell you 28 mana sources is the optimal number.  It is.  

Metalworker.....eh.  So you cast turn 1 Metalworker and then 2 Fatties turn 2 instead of turn 1 Fat turn 2 Fat, with the slight option of the combo.  Hopefully your testing will turn out good results, but I think you'll find better results with your original deck or a R/G version.

[Razvan]

I am a big hungover, so maybe I am missing something, but you use Fire/Ice and have no blue sources other than Lotus or Sapphire... why not use Arc Lightning instead?

[dromar]

I am a big hungover, so maybe I am missing something, but you use Fire/Ice and have no blue sources other than Lotus or Sapphire... why not use Arc Lightning instead?

Arc Lightning is a sorcery. Plus, Fire/Ice costs one mana less. Kinda like the difference between Control Magic and Treachery.

[Covetous]

This would probably be better than the original build you posted (well, better than either of them):
Tools 'N Tubbies:
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Forest
1 Mountain (or taiga #4)
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
1 Squee, Goblin Kabob
4 Goblin Welder
1 Anger
1 Duplicant (can also be viridian zealot but dupes is great)
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

This is a pretty basic build--it's not really tweaked, but instead has good cards for most situations.  The SB can include cards like Xantid Swarm, Artifact Mutation, R & R, REB, F/I, FTK or more Trikes.  Blood moon can also be a strong choice but may not be right because many decks these days are BM-resistant.  Pyrostatic pillar and chalice are also fun vs. combo if you don't want to lose.

[Juggernaut GO]

I finished 3-2 today in auburn.  I lost to rich "the atog lord" shae  in round 2 and lost my second match to a 5/3 build.  out of the 6 games that I won, 4 were due to going off on the 2nd turn with metalworker/staff, just to give you an idea how easy it really was to get the combo out.  I may have just gotten unlucky against rich because 2 rounds later I matched up against meddling mage who runs a near identical build to rich.  He did say he was having an off day but worker/staff went off on him both games.  I think the staff deck could be quite viable now that null rod is almost non existent in the format any more.

[Raptor]

Actually you mentioned earlier that Sundering titan would be the death of you, and I was wondering as to why you used one yourself, does it have enough effect that it is worth playing? Also since you have no blue mana, why not run lightning bolt instead of fire/ice (although i like fire/ice in most cases myself). one final comment is why razormaine masticore, whe not the original? Actually this is the final comment, with the mana denial that you run (trinisphere, spehre of resistance) why not just add void and run a nether void deck?

[Team-Judgement]

Yeah original masticore is better.... but simply why not run the trisk alone, he doesnt require any mana to take down multiple beating goblins or irritating goblins, and everyone knows that machine gun is a wonderfull invention....

i ran 2 solemn along with 4 forest and 1 mountain, and no wheel, zealot and angel, against combo pillar is the bomb because TPS only have like 1 chain of vapor to handle it....

I think everyone agrees that the disruption should be 4 trinispheres and 3 crucibles

[TrixR4Kidz]

I can't imagine any workshop deck that doesn't use trinisphere, it makes me cringe... Also, I think you could definately use a third crucible.  I like your first list alot better then your second list.

Arcbound overseer and Arcbound Ravager are realllly random, and I don't think they are needed.  I also don't like metalworker/staff/zuran orb/fastbond combo, the deck is trying to do too many things.  Also you don't want to make the deck weaker to nullrod.  Metalworker seems a bit too overkill in a deck like this.   Also, you mentioned when titan came into play, you lost your lands, and lost the game.  But the question is how did they deal with his GIGANTIC 7/10 body?

[BreathWeapon]

Chalice in the SB is a very poor idea, in TnT. You can't afford to set it at 2 against Control, Survival, so it's only useful vs Storm Combo. Vs Storm Combo, you can expect to have your Chalice Hurkyled EOT and lose accordingly.

Instead, you should look into SB Root Maze vs Storm Combo and Dragon. It's a one G answer, and it's much more difficult to remove. If you utilize Pain Lands instead of Fetches, you can afford to bring them in vs Control.

Edit: IMO, the deck works best at 26 Sources with 4 MD Crucibles.

[Team-Judgement]

I play old school pyrostatic pillar SB, simply because its a I WIN card against Death Long and allmost i win against TPS. Long got 0 maindeck answers to it, soy they have to use a death wish to get an answer, then it should alredy be to late- Long can bounce both Trinisphere and CotV, but not pillar. TPS has a couple of chain of vapor but then again nothing else

Ive even tried them maindeck because there is simply so much combo around, especially TPS since it can beat stax even if they lay turn 1 trinisphere

My current TnT decklist

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
4 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga

4 Su-Chi
4 Juggernaut
1 Triskelion
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
2 Solemn Simulacrum

4 Goblin Welder
4 Survival
1 Anger
1 Squee
1 Memory jar

4 Trinisphere
3 Crucible

Sideboard

4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Artifact Mutation
1 Triskelion
1 Platinium Angel
3 Metagame Slots, Crypts, RaR, trikes, rebs and stuff lime that

I Really like TnT and i'm happy its finally bin revieved, since stax has for a long time bin a better deck this simply blow the hell out of stax

/Rasmus Roar