Disciple of the Vault and Mass Destruction

[Komatteru]

If I have Disciple of the Vault in play, and a mass destruction effect (like Akroma's Vengeance) is cast, can I have my opponent lose a life for each artifact put into the graveyard this way?  I know I get to choose the graveyard order when multiple things are destroyed simultaneously, as is happening here, but a mass destruction effect puts everything into the yard at once.  Does Disciple see those cards go into the yard before its triggered effect ceases to apply?

[Team-Judgement]

Yes he does lose 1 life for each artifact going to the graveyard, triggered abilities of stuff thats in play, that trigger on something going to the graveyard triggers(like rotlung), if Xx things go to the graveyard at the same time you go back, just before they did and see if anything(f.x leaves play triggers) would trigger

[Binary]

Here's the appropriate entry from the Comp. Rules:

410.10d Abilities that trigger on one or more permanents leaving play, or on a player losing control of a permanent, must be treated specially because the permanent with the ability may no longer be in play after the event. The game has to "look back in time" to determine what triggered. Each time an event removes from play or changes who controls one or more permanents, all the permanents in play just before the event (with continuous effects that existed at that time) are checked for trigger events that match what just left play or changed control.

Example: Two creatures are in play along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.

[Juzza]

Would this also work when you have goblin sharpshooter and say skirk prospector and other goblins? Can you sacrifice goblins to the prospector and use the sharpshooter each time before they all get wrathed away?

[Necrologia]

Yes of course. Both the Prospector and the Shapshooter's abilities are instant speed, so you may sac all your guys before the Wrath resolves.

[Juzza]

Oops I confused myself. I meant to ask if there is no prospector, and just goblins and the sharpshooter. Can you use the sharpshooter as each one goes to the graveyard even though it is supposed to go at the same time.

[Toad]

The Sharpshooter will trigger (including for itself going to the graveyard), but won't be in play when you'll have to resolve the triggers.

[Juzza]

Ah ok, that makes sense, thanks.

[Zelc]

[Note: Take the following with a grain of salt.  I'm not totally sure it's correct.]

However, triggers will be checked at the end of each "part" of a resolution.  For example, having multiple lands and a Disciple of the Vault out doesn't really do you much good if a Death Cloud is played, since Death Clouds calls for creatures to be sacrificed before the lands are sacrificed.  Similarly, if you have Pitchstone Wall in play, you can't sac it to recover something if someone plays Balance (and you more creatures and cards in hand).

[Jaapmans]

[Note: Take the following with a grain of salt.  I'm not totally sure it's correct.]

However, triggers will be checked at the end of each "part" of a resolution.  For example, having multiple lands and a Disciple of the Vault out doesn't really do you much good if a Death Cloud is played, since Death Clouds calls for creatures to be sacrificed before the lands are sacrificed.  Similarly, if you have Pitchstone Wall in play, you can't sac it to recover something if someone plays Balance (and you more creatures and cards in hand).

I'm not 100% sure of what you mean, but from what I understand, you're 100% wrong. Triggers happen all the time, even if players have no priority, like during the resolution of a Death Cloud, Nevy's Disk activation or a Jokulhaups. Triggers will only go on the stack as soon as a player receives priority. Players normally only get priority _AFTER_ resolving a spell or ability on the stack, _NEVER_ during the resolution of a spell or ability. The active player also receives priority when a step or phase is entered.

Just my 5 cts
Jaap

<edit: clarification>

[Jacob Orlove]

His point was that if you have to resolve the parts of a card in order, it's no longer simultaneous. So, you might sac a disciple and three artifact lands, but since you sacced disciple first, and then the lands later (all during the resolution of death cloud), disciple won't trigger.

[krakcer]

So lets say I have out 1 Disciple 2 Frogmites, and 4 Artifact Lands. If my opponent Deathclouds for 4 total. I obviously lose my entire side of the board, but does my opponent lose 2 life because of Frogmites, or does he lose 6 for Frogmites and Land? I would think tha the loses 6 because I thought the spell resolved on 1 stack. Not creatures, land, then hand or anything like that.

[Komatteru]

He loses just two life.  Death Cloud has a specific order you sacrifice the things in, like Balance.  You sacrifice the creatures, and then the lands.  It is not simultaneous like Akroma's Vengeance or Jokulhaups.  So the Disciple will trigger for the 2 Frogmite leaving play at the same time, but it will not be around to see the artifact lands be put into the graveyard.

[krakcer]

He loses just two life.  Death Cloud has a specific order you sacrifice the things in, like Balance.  You sacrifice the creatures, and then the lands.  It is not simultaneous like Akroma's Vengeance or Jokulhaups.  So the Disciple will trigger for the 2 Frogmite leaving play at the same time, but it will not be around to see the artifact lands be put into the graveyard.

Thanks for your response, I guess I never really paid attention to the card, or the ruling. Your help is appreciated.

Edit: Fixed BBCode - Jebus