Chaos Elemental

[b4r0n]

Chaos Elemental
RRR
Creature -- Elemental
If Chaos Elemental would deal damage to a creature or player, choose a target at random. Chaos Elemental deals damage equal to it's power to that target instead.
Chaos is as chaos does.
5/5

I'm not quite sure if the wording for this is correct, or whether the power level is too high or too low, but it seems like a cool twist on the chaotic nature of red. The more creatures that your opponent(s) have, the more random (more powerful?) this becomes, but there's always the chance that it'll either hit you, your creatures, or even itself. What do you think?

[b4r0n]

Current Wording:

Chaos Elemental
RRR
Creature -- Elemental
If Chaos Elemental would deal damage to a creature, it deals that damage to a random creature instead.
Chaos is as chaos does.
5/5

[Shadow-Walker]

"If chaos elemental would deal damage to a creature or player, choose target creature or player at random and Chaos elemental deals damage to that target instead.  This damage does not trigger abilities of Chaos Elemental"
Is the best wording I can think of, it specifies the target type and (I think) keeps it from going into a loop which the original would get stuck in.

[Upinthe]

I'd highly suggest making it trigger only off combat damage.

[b4r0n]

If Chaos Elemental would deal combat damage to a creature or player, choose a creature or player at random. Chaos Elemental deals damage equal to it's power to that creature or player instead.

Would that solve the problem? Also, what are your opinions on this card's power level? I wanted to add haste, but wasn't sure whether or not that would be too much.

[Jacob Orlove]

This card is pretty bad, because even if it, you, and your opponent are the only available targets, it has like a 2/3 chance of not working properly. More creatures makes the problem worse.

How about this: If Chaos Elemental would deal damage to a creature, it deals that damage to a random creature instead.

[dandan]

I am against making it damage only creatures as you have a reasonable chance of having this get through and a 5/5 for RRR is too good if it has no drawback if unblocked.

However I agree that the odds against it hitting the correct target are too poor, how about

If Chaos Elemental would deal damage to a creature or player, choose a target other than yourself at random. Chaos Elemental deals damage equal to it's power to that target instead.

So an unblocked CE kills itself half of the time and slaps your opponent around half of the time. Sounds fair to me.

I am not sure why making it combat damage solves anything. Giving it a 'ping' ability doesn't turn it into any more of a killing machine than it already is. If you are concerned that somehow you can get a reusable damage dealing ability onto this guy (good luck!), then how about

If Chaos Elemental would deal damage to a creature or player, choose a target other than yourself at random. Chaos Elemental deals that much damage to that target instead.

This prevents casual ping/untap decks from having stacks with lots of 5 point pings but I am not too concerned about such 'abuse' (indeed I think such casual combos are an asset).

In any case changing it to give it an maximum 50% chance of actually hitting an opponent doesn't seem unfair.

The 'to a creature or a player' bit looks unnecessary to me. Can you actually damage anything else?

[Matt]

"If chaos elemental would deal damage to a creature or player, choose target creature or player at random and Chaos elemental deals damage to that target instead.  This damage does not trigger abilities of Chaos Elemental"
Is the best wording I can think of, it specifies the target type and (I think) keeps it from going into a loop which the original would get stuck in.

Well, you're right in that it wouldn't trigger itself, seeing as it's a replacement ability and not a triggered ability.

Replacement effects can only replace a given thing once. They don't keep applying over and over. The original wording works fine.

[Ephraim]

I think that this is much worse than [card]Goblin Psychopath[/card]. That only has two possible vectors for its damage: you or whatever it would normally deal combat damage to. It's a lot easier to plan for that. This has a wicked colour commitment and a harder drawback around which to work. Nor is it particularly more flavourful. Both adequately convey the idea of reckless chaos. Further, although they've printed such cards in the past, choosing a random creature from among an arbitrary set of creatures is a pain in the butt.

[b4r0n]

I like Jacob's suggestion for having it only deal random damage to creatures. I think that it's a significant enough drawback and that it won't always get through. With a single blocker, it has as much chance of killing itself as it does the opposing creature. With more creatures on the opponent's side, it just gets a little better.

Ephraim, while this may be similar to Goblin Psychopath (a card of which I was not aware when designing this), I think that it's still different and flavorful. With the changes, I don't think it's a whole lot worse. If you have any suggestions to improve it, I'd be happy to hear them.

[Shadow-Walker]

Well, you're right in that it wouldn't trigger itself, seeing as it's a replacement ability and not a triggered ability.

Good point I didnt catch that.

[dandan]

Sorry, random damage to creatures just isn't bad enough to justify a 5/5 for 3 mana.

Pretend this says

5/5 for RRR Can only attack if opponent has no blockers

Then add in the additional if unlikely abilities to block (albeit fairly badly) and attack (usually badly but possibly very effectively if they have several or non-combat creatures). Prot. Red does less than usual vs. this.

Crag Saurian was a 4/4 that changed sides if damaged, this one either dies or beats another creature hard and is a 5/5 creature to boot!

I could see this being Chaotic in a Goblin Cadet sort of way but even then a 5/5 for RRR is a serious beatstick and probably too strong.

[Jacob Orlove]

5/5 for RRR Can only attack if opponent has no blockers

That's actually pretty reasonable. Certainly worse then Negator, which was good but fair.

I don't really like the flavor text, though.

[b4r0n]

If this were to go into the Aztec set, perhaps we could use flavor text to link this to Horzatl or something in Aztec culture. I'm not too good at creating flavor text, so if someone could help me out, that'd be great.

In terms of the power of this card, I'd like to hear what more people have to say. Personally, I think it's a little weak due to the casting cost of triple red and the randomness of damage, but dandan has a valid point. I'm open to any and all suggestions.