Force of Will and Mana Leak Made Babies...

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
Remove a card in your hand from the game: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1.

Is it too strong? Basically, you run 1 copy in your sideboard, and all cards in your hand become the offspring of FoW and Mana Leak.

[Nazdakka]

That's a trully wierd idea... Broken too. As written, this would almost constitute a new rule of Magic - 'You have a 14 card SB, plus you can Force Spike anything by removing a card in hand from the game. In casual/limited games it's like: Ok, you see that Temporal Rip over there? Well I'm using it to counter your spell . I think you've got to make it a little harder to get the effect - how about making it only useable if it's in your hand/graveyard?

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

That's a trully wierd idea... Broken too. As written, this would almost constitute a new rule of Magic - 'You have a 14 card SB, plus you can Force Spike anything by removing a card in hand from the game. In casual/limited games it's like: Ok, you see that Temporal Rip over there? Well I'm using it to counter your spell . I think you've got to make it a little harder to get the effect - how about making it only useable if it's in your hand/graveyard?

I kept on making it BLUE cards only, but then it wasn't good enough. Maybe I could change it to instants?

[stolen]

How about, ", remove a card in your hand from the game:"?  Although really it should be more like {U}, or even , considering even the first option would make every card in your deck a Force Spike.

The idea of giving every color access to a free forcespike is a little weird.  It also violates the color wheel in a very perverse way.  I say either add an AC of or make it a blue card that must be removed.  Otherwise, Nazdakka is right.

Realize of course that this is strictly better than Force Spike and Daze.  That alone should be enough to lower its power level.  Besides that, it's just sick.

I do like the idea, though.

Idea:

CARDNAME

Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
If you control an Island and CARDNAME is in your hand, you may reveal it and remove a card in your hand from the game.  If you do, put a copy of CARDNAME on the stack.

Even that's a little sketchy though.

[Gleemax]

doesnt the effect of putting it on the stack physically  bring it into the game?  if so, it's almost balanced as a one-time better-than-daze.  the mana cost, of course, is totally irrelevant.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

doesnt the effect of putting it on the stack physically  bring it into the game?  if so, it's almost balanced as a one-time better-than-daze.  the mana cost, of course, is totally irrelevant.

It says "copy". So no.

Here's a new version.

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
Remove an instant in your hand from the game: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1. If they do, they draw a card.

[stolen]

I still think that it should be a blue card or a blue instant, or that it should be conditional that the player control an island.  This is still giving a free Force Spike to every color.

Also, to be nitpicky, "they" is plural, so it can't refer to a single controller.  Also, "it's" means "it is."  The last line should be, "Counter target spell unless its controller pays .  If (he or she/that player/the spell's controller) does, he or she (may) draw(s) a card" [depending on whether or not the card draw is forced].

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
Remove an instant in your hand from the game: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1. If the spell's controller does, he or she may draw a card.

I think it's balanced. The place it would be most broken is Type 1, where letting your opponet draw a card is never good. If they have 1 to pay it, it's card disadvantage.

One interesting use it using it on your own spell when you have 1 mana open, basically cycling instants for 1.

[Norm4eva]

Would it be more appropriate to use the wording "Remove a card in your hand from the game: PLAY Temporal Rift."?  Just putting it on the stack doesn't neccesarily do anything as no targets have been decided.  I only bring this up because Storm and Mirari add the clause "you may select new targets" and those are dealing with copying a spell with all the appropriate decisions already made (modes, targets, alternative payments etc).

[orgcandman]

1 - Please post a current wording edit into the first post. I'm rather confused on what the current version is.

2 - Whenever you play with "free" spells, you're always breaking a rule of magic. "Free" spells, particularly in blue, are usually severly powerful, making them something you want to really be careful with. To my knowledge, most of the free blue spells are used in Fish and landstill. Daze, Gush, Misdirection, and FoW iirc. That means that only foil and thwart are left out in the cold. And they're pretty strong as well. (look at stasis.dec)

3 - If you wanted to make a free force spike, having it come in from out of game is bad. That ALWAYS means that your opening hand is 8 cards. Essentially, you've just given someone easy access to turn 1 counter. Wizards tries to avoid this. And if they do have to put in a turn 1 counter, it's always been that it needs to be in your hand.

Think about this:
I open with 7 cards, my opponent opens with 7 cards (no one mulligans)

He plays a land, mox, standstill.
I force of will. I'm down to 5 cards in hand. He's at 4 cards in hand. I've lost a card to deal with his standstill. When I drop my land + flying men, I've got 4 cards in hand. he's winning the card advantage race.

I'm using your spell. Now I've got 6 cards in hand still. I've used 1 card to deal with his standstill. Now, I'll be winning the card advantage race.

The other thing to think about:
What happens when someone runs 3 in their maindeck and 1 in their sideboard. Now they get 2 force spikes for free. And one pays for the other one. it's absolutely broken.

[Nazdakka]

I'm sorry, but this HAS to be limited to blue. As is, any colour can turn any instant into a Force Spike at the cost of one sideboard slot, which is a massive violation of the colour wheel.

Even limited to blue instants, this is still too good - just think about how much Mono-U would love to have every counter be a Daze if need be, for a barely noticable outlay. Messing around with the casting cost is also a waste of time, noone will EVER cast this. The 'draw a card' drawback is also pretty irrelevant... and like you say, cycling any of your instants for 1 is fairly sick.

This card has to either be harder to activate (pitch 2 cards? It's STILL dangerous IMO...) or be more difficult to get active. I suggest the following:

Temporal Rip
1U
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1
If <this> is in your graveyard, you may remove a blue card in your hand from the game to put a copy of <this> on the stack.

It's essentially an incarnation here. You could even stick this mechanic onto a creature, so it can have the Incarnation creature type.

or

Temporal Rip
2U
Instant
U, remove a game in your hand from the game: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1.

I really dislike the idea of having a card which will never be actually played though. That's why I'm not a fan of the 'not in the game' mechanic - a 3/4cc Force Spike is utterly useless.

One last idea, which is perhaps a little too orthodox:

Temporal Rip
1U
Instant - Arcane
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1.
Splice into Arcane: Remove a blue card in your hand from the game

[Jacob Orlove]

This needs to be no stronger than Daze, which costs you a card AND a land drop. This just costs you a card.

I actually don't think there's any good way to make this card, because the whole concept of a free counterspell that you can cast before your first turn is flawed. It may be saving T1, but that's only because T1 is even more flawed.

[dandan]

Also, to be nitpicky, "they" is plural, so it can't refer to a single controller.  Also, "it's" means "it is."  The last line should be, "Counter target spell unless its controller pays {1}.  If (he or she/that player/the spell's controller) does, he or she (may) draw(s) a card" [depending on whether or not the card draw is forced].

OK, to be even more nitpicky "they" is not always plural. It can be used instead of he/she as an alternative to 'it' where the subject is of a definite sex but you don't know which. Referring to people as "it" is a no-no so talking about someone's friend/cousin you would say "They are coming at 8.00". Funnily enough, despite the need to keep card text down, Wizards have a track record of using he or she/his or her/him or her instead of they/their/them. I guess they are trying the appease the nitpicky crowd!

Regarding the card, I think Stolen's suggestion is the best so far

CARDNAME
2U
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1 .
If you control an Island and CARDNAME is in your hand, you may reveal it and remove a card in your hand from the game. If you do, put a copy of CARDNAME on the stack.

The removed card may need to be Blue to avoid nonsense like SuicideBlack with Underground Seas so it has a hand full of Force Spikes.

Dandan's suggestion

CARDNAME
2U
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1 .
If you control an Island and CARDNAME is in your hand, you may reveal it and remove a Blue card in your hand from the game. If you do, put a copy of CARDNAME on the stack.

Note that this is a very Blue counter (like FoW) and can't be used before you get an Island into play. However it is fairly similar to FoW in power if you go first. The CC might need to be 3U or 1UU  but the above suggestion is already weaker than most suggestions here and the real CC is probably not that important anyway.

[Jacob Orlove]

OK, to be even more nitpicky "they" is not always plural. It can be used instead of he/she as an alternative to 'it' where the subject is of a definite sex but you don't know which. Referring to people as "it" is a no-no so talking about someone's friend/cousin you would say "They are coming at 8.00". Funnily enough, despite the need to keep card text down, Wizards have a track record of using he or she/his or her/him or her instead of they/their/them. I guess they are trying the appease the nitpicky crowd!

While it it common to use "they" in that manner, it is not actually grammatically correct. We are not yet at the point where common use has trumped common sense for this particular case.

The obvious solution is just to avoid pronouns when you don't know who you're talking about.


These other versions are still better than Daze, because you can remove itself to cast the copy.

[stolen]

CARDNAME

Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
If CARDNAME is in your hand, you may reveal it, pay , and remove a blue card in your hand from the game.  If you do, put a copy of CARDNAME on the stack.

Better?

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
Remove a card in your hand from the game at random: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game. If you discard a land, put Temporal Rip into your graveyard.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

Hmmm, more balanced?

[Matt]

No, because it doesn't require you to play blue.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

No, because it doesn't require you to play blue.

What if I made land into non-island land?

[stolen]

You're trying to turn every single card in the game into a free Force Spike.  It's just not a good idea, for reasons already mentioned.

Yes, it's a very cool idea, and I applaud you on that.  However, it's simply not feasible for Magic.

First, you absolutely must restrict it to blue.  This violates the color wheel in ways that if the color wheel were a person, it would be scarred for life and be afraid to enter into another relationship ever again and would spend all its money on psychiatric bills and drugs to alleviate the horror it experienced.

Second, I strongly advise against making anything that can be used first-turn (especially because this, unlike Force of Will, is guranteed to be available to you first turn no matter what your hand is).  Because it is reusable, I would also suggest that you not make it mana-free to cast.  Remember that, as it is, it is available on the very first turn always (which is why my suggestion was to have it play from hand instead of from RFG).

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
U, Remove a blue card in your hand from the game: Put Temporal Rip on the stack. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

[leviat]

It took a little reading, but I finally got the idea behind this card. Basically you sacrifice a card in your sideboard to have a static effect. Initially I wanted to dismiss entirely as it seemed way to broken, but the more I thought about it, the more it grew on me. However, I think this card needs to become a subtype of enchantments. For example--

Temporal Rift {U}
Enchantment
External: 4 (If this card is in your sideboard, you may use it as though it was in play. Your maximum sideboard count is reduced by 4)
, Discard a blue card: Counter target spell unless its controller pays .

For the effect you are going for, this makes a lot more sense logically in my mind as well as having a drawback for using it in your sideboard.

[Norm4eva]

I think you'll have to submit to the notion that this can't be free.  First of all we already have a 0th turn hard counter in Force of Will.  The only hard drawback behind FoW is you have to draw it, beyond that it's incredible.  It protects your combo, it ruins theirs, it lets you tap out with your Morphling, it makes Standstill a good card... et cetera.  You don't even have to freaking draw this.
Secondly, nothing is keeping anyone from putting 4x in their SB.  It's been suggested that the card should shrink your sideboard but even then, running 2-3 is not wholly improbable because what sideboarding do you really need to do when you have a counterspell in hand at all times?  I mean honestly, this spell guarantees that you counter something vital on their first turn.  Proably second and third turn for that matter; even just playing around this card means you need to settle for turn 4 to play what you wanted to play on turn 2.
The least you can do is restrict it to blue cards.  You should probably tack on a U activation after that.  Hell, make 'em pay 1 life too.  I'm dead serious man, this is like, the Wish of all Wishes card, and Wishes are bad enough.

[stolen]

I'm really just completely against any card being able to be played out of the sideboard (especially a cheap counterspell).  It's a neat idea, but it just isn't going to work.

I suggest(ed) making it reusable by sacrificing other cards to it, but only when it's in your hand.

On second thought, there might be a balanced way to play this out of your sideboard:

CARDNAME

Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
{U}{U}, remove two blue cards in your hand from the game: Put a copy of CARDNAME on the stack.  Use this ability only any time CARDNAME is not in the game.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Okay, I think I figured it out:

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
U, Remove a blue card in your hand from the game: Play Temporal Rip. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

It's a one time use. That means if you want to be able to use it alot, you need to run 4x in your sideboard. Plus, you need to play blue, and in the late game it's terrible. I think it's balanced now.

[Ephraim]

I really dislike this card, no matter how many "fair" renditions I see. For starters, I think the wording needs to be changed. Right now, it looks like the ability that allows you to play a copy of Temporal Rip from outside the game is totally non-functional, since it's written in a way that implies that it can be played only when you hardcast a copy of Temporal Rift - but you can't, because when you do, Temporal Rift (which, in Magic jargon, means "this card") is in the game. You may also want to consider making the wording something like the Judgement Wishes.

Temporal Rip
{3}{U}
Instant

You may pay {U} and remove a blue card in your hand from the game. If you do, reveal a card named Temporal Rip you own from outside the game and play it without paying its mana cost. (You may play this ability even when Temporal Rift is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays {1}.

***

This is the best way I can come up with to word this, and that's pretty awful. No matter how I write it, the wordings for ways to dig a copy out of your sideboard seem to be contingent upon having cast a first copy of this spell. All I could think of to do was add reminder text, which doesn't actually change the rules legality of the card. At any rate, the horrible clunkiness of making this ability fit into the rules aside, this card still all-but-obsoletes Force Spike in casual play (And yes, it matters - I'm sure that WotC would have loved to have Door to Nothingness simply say, "You win the game" but to be fair they had to word it in a way that was fair for casual/multiplayer play). With this card, every blue card in your deck, up to the number of copies of Temporal Rip that you own, is a Force Spike (except it gets removed from the game, instead of going to your graveyard.)

Anyhow, now that I really closely examine your initial concept, isn't Daze already the intersection of Force of Will and Mana Leak (well, Force Spike, more appropriately?) It's a spell that counters a spell unless its controller pays {1} and can be played for free under some circumstances. That seems a LOT easier to understand than this rules nightmare. Is there a good argument for why there should exist a card that's better when played out of your sideboard? There's a good reason why the cards in a game and the cards outside a game are separated - that barrier should be breached with caution. Although having another counter that is easy for Vintage to use is a laudable goal, I think it's important to consider the harm that a card like this would do to other formats. WotC is only just now trying to reintegrate playable counters into Standard/Block. Something like this totally blows Hinder and Thoughtbind out of the water.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
U, Remove a blue card in your hand from the game: Play Temporal Rip. Use this ability any time Temporal Rip is not in the game.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

It's a one time use. That means if you want to be able to use it alot, you need to run 4x in your sideboard. Plus, you need to play blue, and in the late game it's terrible. I think it's balanced now.

This is probably more elegant:

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
If Temporal Rip is not in the game, you may pay U and remove a blue card in your hand from the game. If you do, you may play Temporal Rip without paying it's mana cost.
 
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.

I'm not sure if it's broken or not, but it definitly should be very annoying to play against. The biggest problem is probably that you won't know if you have to play around it game 1 or how many slots your opponent used up in his sb (so that you don't even know how often you'll have to play around it).

[Alfred]

So then it would just be a better force spike, because it isn't card disadvatage if you counter the spell. This makes any blue spell a force spike in addition to what it is, just for the cost of one stupid sideboard spot. This card is just inherently flawed, so I think it should be scrapped

[Nazdakka]

I think that a loss of sideboard space is an extremely small penalty, and cards which use as a drawback should be treated as such. Even if we can make this mechanic work with the rules, then each copy of Temporal Rip needs to wipe out a large chunk of the SB to avoid brokeness.

Look at this way - what global effect would be small enough to be worth 1 SB slot? Lose one SB slot: Gain 1 starting life? That's not really all that bad for a T2 control deck. Lose one SB slot: Turn a blue card into a surprise Force Spike? That's really good by comparison. I don't think we can realistically make this card coming out of the sideboard without it being broken beyond belief (eg. the card orginally posted) or unplayably weak (Stolen's latest).

I also really dislike the fact that this card will never, ever, be played in a maindeck. As Ephraim says, it has nasty implications for casual play, and also to me it just feels like it's going against the grain somehow... I can't really express it any better.

My opinion is that we should either switch this to being played out of the hand/graveyard or kill it.

[leviat]

Here's an idea. What if instead of having a global effect, instead you have the ability to switch any blue card for it. For example

Temporal Rift  
Instant
If this card is removed from the game, you may pay , reveal a blue card in your hand, and remove it from the game. Reveal Temporal Rift and put it into your hand. Play this ability as an instant.

Counter target spell unless it's controller pays .

End result? You now have a card that can be used from your sideboard at anytime, but is not an overly broken static effect.

Edit: Haha, just realized this is what Mon was trying to explain.

[CaptainPlanet.dec]

Temporal Rip 3U
Instant
If Temporal Rip is not in the game, you may pay U and remove a blue card in your hand from the game. If you do, you may play Temporal Rip without paying it's mana cost.

Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.